Der Rittmeister's Dr-1...

8 June 2005, 09:04 PM

Quote:

(By PETERn) pity about the fuselage but the control column is in Canberra:

And so, there are other parts of the aircraft which exist... Just no parts of the remaining airframe!

I don't get it!... We're not talking about some stray pilot in a Taube that was brought down! It was von Richthofen, for gods sake! Didn't anyone have the slightest inclination to save the aircraft (or what was left of it) for posterity... for a museum piece!

I'm sorry, meine Freunden, but it just boggles the mind! I honestly thought that the remaining airframe was out there... perhaps in the Imperial War Museum... perhaps in private collections... but somewhere!

Großer Gott in Himmel!

pmirl · 13 June 2005, 07:45 AM

I can't remember where it was I heard or read this, but I recall being informed that the Sopwith company aquired the remains as they wanted to put it on display since (as it was believed at the time) one of their machines brought it down.

The remains were supposedly boxed up and sent to Sopwith, but were never seen again.

Paul

Shipmodeler · 14 June 2005, 03:30 PM

Dear Von Reichel, The following few sentences are from the Aviation- History website: It has been reported that after WWI, Richthofen's airplane became part of Germany's aeronautical collection. This aircraft and others from the collection were evacuated before the serious air raids on Berlin took place in 1944. The aircraft were sent to Pomerania and other "safe" locations, now part of Poland.

One inhabitant recalled, as a small child, seeing a red fuselage and wings in a dance hall. During a severe cold spell, he remembered sawing up the wings for firewood. According to Prof. Steinle of the Deutsches Technik Museum Berlin, there is every reason to believe that this is how Richthofen's DR.-I 425/17 airplane met an ignominious end.
Hope this helps!

Dan_San_Abbott · 14 June 2005, 07:05 PM

Shipmodeler:
There was no fabric left on what was remained of the fuselage of DR.I 425/17, it was a bare particial frame. What had been displayed in the Berlin Zeughaus was Fok.DR.I 152/17. Which had been painted red all over. If this was cutup and burned for fuel, is tragic.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

15 June 2005, 08:39 PM

Ignominious end, indeed... no matter which of the supposed fates befell Des Rittmeisters crate. Truly sad that no one had the intelligence or foresight to do the right thing for such an astounding piece of aviation history!

"Prost!"

EricGoedkoop · 16 June 2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VonReichel

Truly sad that no one had the intelligence or foresight to do the right thing for such an astounding piece of aviation history!

I wouldn't judge them too harshly - who's to say what people will consider valuable or not ninety years down the road? I could imagine the wreckage being put on display as a morale-booster had the souvenir hunters not stripped it clean, but even if that had happened it most likely would have been considered scrap after the war was over. MvR was an icon in his time, but I don't think it would have been possible for anyone to foresee his future, greater fame. When he was shot down he was not yet the "highest scoring ace of the war." He was only the highest scoring thus far and the fat lady had yet to sing.

I remember a conversation I had with a friend about the NASM Snipe. Post war, it had been converted to a two seater and then was converted back years later by Cole Palen. We were discussing how terrible it was that someone had cut a second hole into the airplane . . . . until it dawned on us that at the time, that Snipe was nothing more than another bargain basement surplus crate. Ninety years from now, what will people be wishing we saved?

Roadhog · 17 June 2005, 10:45 PM

Like has been posted earlier, the souvenir hounds descened on the plane and the hanger holding his body almost immediately when word got out that it was in fact von Richthofen. The worst artifact to be pilfered that day, in my opinion, was the bullet that killed him. It was later destroyed in a housefire and could have solved the controversey that lingers on today regarding who brought him down.

Immediately after the crash landing, a German artillery spotter called down a barrage on the wrecked plane hoping to destroy it. He failed. As I understand it from reading the reports, the undercarrige was ripped from the frame, and the prop destoyed, other than that the plane was reasonably intact. Within a day, all that remained of the triplane was the rudder, frame, seat, engine, and machine guns (that were also stolen later). Hope this helps. VR, Roadhog

franzkait · 18 June 2005, 03:07 AM

So the fuselage and wings from 425 was in a dance hall and the wings used for fire wood ? the aircrafts from Berlin are still standing in the forest near Breslau in 1950, and all wings are missing. All the wings are used for fire wood in a dance hall ?looks like a lot of dancing in Breslau. The polish started one day to take all the aercraft with trucks and did bring them to a big building near Breslau. Fotos exist for this transport.
Later the aircrafts went to Krakau.The story is , the germans did bring this aercrafts to Breslau,for sure the germans did bring anything to save in 1945 to the east.

Roadhog · 18 June 2005, 03:45 PM

Besides the control column that ended up in Australia, the only other remaining major component of von Richthofen's DR1 425/17 is its Oberursal rotary engine that is in the possession of the Imperial War museum in London, according to Dale Titler in the book, The Day the Red Baron Died.

Titler said that no attempt was made to safeguard and salvage the plane because the Brits had captured one intact and were already evaluating it. He added that aside from the engine and guns that were shipped to London, the remaining portions of the wreck were taken to a salvage park and scrapped via burning. The twin machine guns were stolen enroute.

God I thought US Marines were crazy souvenir hunters. These guys make our leathernecks look like pikers. VR, Roadhog

"Memento mori."

fsbof · 18 June 2005, 09:02 PM

Here is the engine from 425/17 as displayed at the Imperial War Museum in 2000. In The Red Baron's Last Flight, Franks and Bennett note that DrI 144/17 had force-landed behind British lines in January 1918 and was subsequently test-flown. Thus, by April, MvR's plane was of no particular technical interest to the RAF, and no serious effort was made to stop the souvenir hunters.