Italian Navy Curtiss,Albatros...floatplanes

[alexmehtidis]

Hello,

the Italian Navy had 14 sea-planes ( Borel, Curtiss, Albatross,
Farman-Guidoni ) in the Naval School ( Venice ), the La Spezia
Squadriglia and aboard various vessels in August 1914.

and

Naval Aviation May 24th, 1915 ( mobilisation ) :

-7 - 6 ? - seaplanes ( Borel, Curtiss, Albatross, Farman-Guidoni ) at Venezia ( S. Andrea and Sabbioni ), of which only 3 operational.
-4 Borel at Porto Corsini
-2 Curtiss Flying Boat at Pesaro ( being assembled )
-Two Curtiss at Pesaro
-Two Curtiss at Brindisi
-2 - 3 ? - Curtiss aboard R.N. ' Elba '
-15 Curtiss at the Scuola di Aviazione ( Taranto )

Would anyone know what type were the Borel, Curtiss, Albatross &
Farman-Guidoni seaplanes / floatplanes and where I cane get some info about them ( basic specifications )? I know it's difficult to
give a type with certainty at such an early time for aviation ( Curtiss
Fs are often confused with Curtis Es for example ).

On a short article ( a webpage ) about John Lansing Callan ( the
foreign representative of the Curtiss Co. in Italy and England ) by Merrill
Stickler Curtiss planes bought by the Italian Navy are mentioned as
' 3 Curtiss Model F Flying Boats and a few old Curtiss Hydroaeroplanes '.
Parts of this webpage follow at the end. Is that so ? And would anyone
know how many more were built and by who ?

The Albatros is mentioned as a WDD - Alegi, Gregory, Italian
national markings ( Windshock Mini Datafile 17 ), Berkhamsted :
Albatros Productions Ltd., 2001 -.

And what about the Borel and the Farman-Guidoni, any ideas ?

Davilla, Dr. James J. & Soltan, Arthur M., French aircraft of the
First World War, Stratford ( Connecticut ) : Flying Machines Press,
1997 doesn't mention anything about the Borel and could the Farman-Guidoni
be the H. Farman H.F.22 floatplane that was license-built by Savoia ?

Extract for Callan referred to above :

" Callan's skill, personality and knowledge of his field, soon brought him a post as a foreign representative of the Curtiss Co. in Italy and England. In October of 1914, he went to Italy for the Curtiss Co. to set up and demonstrate three Curtiss Model F Flying Boats. These boats were built to carry two passengers and were equipped with the Curtiss OX motor. The boats were assembled at Tranto, Italy and were demonstrated for the officers of the Italian Navy, which purchased all three boats. These, and a few old Curtiss Hydroaeroplanes, sometimes called 'Robinsons', after Hugh Robinson, who had demonstrated and sold them years earlier, constituted almost the entire Italian Naval Air Force. There were no regularly established schools or factories to aleviate the problem when Italy found herself involved in the war.
Signor Enca Bossi was the Italian representative of the Curtiss Co. and had arranged with the Zari Bros. of Bovisia, Italy, to build the Curtiss type boat from plans sent from Hammondsport. On September 22, 1914, Lanny made a demonstration flight in the first Italian built flying boat on Lake Como before naval officials. The boat was purchased and an order placed for several more. The Italians were convinced that naval aviation was an excellent way to patrol their long and exposed coastlines.
In January, 1915, "Signor" Callan was requested by the Italian Naval authorities to oversee the establishment of their first naval aeronautics school at Taranto. Permission was granted by the Curtiss Co., and in February, Lanny became Chief pilot instructor and assistant to the commandant of the school, to advise in all matters pertaining to the course of instruction of both officers and enlisted personnel. Callan was joined by William E. Doherty, Dave McCullough and Charles Fay, all of whom were Curtiss trained pilots.
Many of their pupils had the opportunity to test their flying experience in actual warfare, and many who learned to fly the boats at Taranto distinguished themselves. Among others were Garrasini, Roberti, Bologue, Caffaratti, Che, and Pellegrini..."

Thanks, Alexis Mehtidis

[alexmehtidis]

Well, I'm answering myself now, but after some frivolous research
in the internet ( 'Curtiss' with various combinations in Google among
them ),I found in IPMS Italy a list of planes used during WW 1 and the
Curtiss are mentioned as ' Curtiss Mod. 53 A-1 Triad idro (floatplane),
8 planes ' and then no sign of a Curtiss Mod. 53 but Triad showed
- at www.aerofiles.com/curtiss-boats.html - :

- Triad 1911 :

Same as D-III Hydro with various 40-75hp Curtiss;
span: 35'4" length: 25'9" v: 57-70. A "Hydro-aeroplane" with
detachable floats, operable on land or sea, or both. $4,500-5,500.
Modified with floats and retracting wheels, it became the world's
first successful amphibian on 2/25/11, by taking off from San Diego
harbor and landing on the beach

- Curtiss A-1 Triad 1911 :

USN patrol land/hydroplane, the Navy's first airplane.
75hp Curtiss V-8 pusher; span: (overall) 37'0" (wing only) 28'8"
length: 27'8" v: 43/40/x range: 112; ff: 4/1/11 (p: Curtiss,
five minute flight at 25' AGL). Gross wt: 1575#. $4,400; POP: 1.
Became AH-1. A-1 was used in a variety of aerial "firsts" — first
cross-country flight, 112 miles in 122 minutes; first (albeit
unsuccessful) catapult launch (4/31/12); first night landing on water
without lights. Also set a world seaplane altitude record of 900'.
After 285 flights, the plane faded into history. A faithful replica
was built by a group of fans in San Diego c.1956.

- Curtiss D Hydro 1911

- D-8 Canoe Machine / A Curtiss D Hydro :

60-75hp Curtiss V-8 pusher; span: 26'3".
Standard D converted to a seaplane with a large main float and wingtip
stabilizing pontoons. Modified with retracting wheels as Triad.

- D-III (D Tractor) :

with 60hp Curtiss V-8 was for USN evaluations,
modified into a tractor configuration with a pilot's seat aft of the
motor, had interconnected elevators front and back, shortened front
booms and the planes moved inward, and was the transition to the
long-wing Headless. It also was the first airplane to fly to and
from the deck of a ship (cruiser USS Pennsylvania,) on San Francisco
Bay, 1/18/11 (p: Eugene Ely), and the first aircraft to be hoisted
aboard a ship (USS Pennsylvania,) on 2/17/11, in San Diego
(p: Curtiss). D-IV eliminated all the forward booms and evolved into
D-V as the military "war" machine (51hp V-8), with the USN its
principal buyer. D-III [AS2] and D-IV were the first Curtiss machines
purchased by the Army, in March 1911.

Any connection between the above abd the Italian Navy Curtiss?

As for the Albatros floatplanes they are mentioned ( in IPMS Italy )
as 'B.II idro, 6 planes'. Could the Italian Albatros floatplanes be
a version of Albatros B.II landplanes ? There was an Albatros W.1 floatplane,
but the tail & rudder and the engines were different.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks, Alexis Mehtidis

Try www.flyingboat.ca/
This is pretty good on Curtiss, but a bit light on the ones you want. A good start, though. Also, SEARCH for "Jack Carpenter" as his site has a few goodies that might be interesting.

[Colin A Owers]

THe Italian F Boats were tandem seaters with a folding hood to protect the occupants from spray. I have a photo of the cockpit. Basically that is all I have been able to find out.

Colin A Owers

[alexmehtidis]

Thanks a lot. It seems I'm looking for a needle in a haystack - if I have it right -!!!.

Alexis Mehtidis

[radspadmike]

Alexis,
The book, "Curtiss: The Hammondsport Era, 1907-1915" by Louis S. Casey, Crown Publishers, Inc. New York; ISBN : 0-517-543265, devotes a six page chapter to the Italian F Boat, 1914. It includes photos and drawings which may be of interest. Please contact me at mike_kavanaugh@operamail.com if you have any specific questions.

Mike