Early early Fokker D.VII

[Cliff]

I'm thinking of modelling one of the early D.VIIs, 227/18 to 229/18 and have a question concerning the style of exhaust used.
As I understand it, the prototype Fokker V.11 was modified to become one of the above machines.
In Datafile 9, page 3 is a right side pic of V.11/II with triplane style tail, streaked camouflage, etc. It's exhaust pipe exits the cheek piece towards the top rear of the panel - a different location than the standard early Fokker built machines.
Now, on page 4 is a left side pic of one of the three early D.VIIs, with new tail, streaked camo and crosses. During the modifications was the exhaust changed to the top centre of the cheek panel?
The best answer would be a pic of the right side of this machine. Does one exist?
Any info would be appreciated.

Cliff

[AchimEngels]

Hi,



Achim

[Cliff]

Achim

Your photo appears to be about a D.VII 451/18 series aircraft.
I'm looking for a right side pic of 227, 228 or 229 with o/a streaked green camo and patee crosses on white fields. Do you have one of these?

Cliff

[AchimEngels]

Cliff,

I do unfortunately not have a record of the shown aircrafts serial number. All I know is that it is a early Fokker built one, as you said, too.

I also do not have a photograph of one of the very early 297, 298 or 299/18 aircraft nor do I have one of one of their sisters. I am sorry.

I would suggest to ask Dave Watts. He is one of the forumities here.

All the best

Achim

[Dave_Watts]

Hi all,

Hi Cliff,

Sorry to have not repied sooner, I've been on a fishing vacation.

The photo Achim posted is of 507/18 and doesn't apply that well to the ultra-early examples you referred to.

I've been on the lookout for photos of any early built D.VII (in the 227 to 258/18 range) for some years now, and there is not that much out there. I have never seen a photo of the right side of the aircraft with the patee crosses on page 4, (with the all white rudder and white field wing markings), only the single photo of the left side. Therefore any conclusion will be of speculation. I would guess the exhaust would be the type that would exit down lower as do many of the very early D.VII's.

Very best,
Dave W.

[Shooter]

Dave, et al:

Not being an expert, but the photo above seems to be a BMW powered model. I was under the impression that all of the early D-VII's had Mercedes power plants. Nicht war?


Shooter sends

Cliff:

Here's a pic of the right side of an early Fokker DVII, as proven by the Maltese cross on the underside of the lower wing. You will find it on page 1 of the Windsock Fokker DVII Anthology, part 1. I believe this particular airplane was part of the first batch delivered to Jasta 10 in late April or early May.

Some of the early Fokkers with 2XX/18 serials had BMW engines. The exhaust manifold is not a sure indicator of the engine type, because many Mercedes engines used similar hardware in the early production runs of the DVII.

And a similar photo with earlier style fuselage crosses, perhaps even the very same airplane. The shot is cropped from a photo on page 37 of Windsock's "Von Richthofen's Flying Circus", which shows a bad landing by another DVII of Jasta 10. The other DVII pictured on that page is Fritz Friedrichs' 234/18, which clearly shows identical markings of patee crosses on both wings, with fuselage and tail crosses converted to Balkenkreuze on white backgrounds.

[Dave_Watts]

Hi Shooter,

A good reference to the more complete side view photo of D.VII 507/18 is on the inside cover of Anthology 1 at the top of the page. *You can see this photo was taken at the exact time as the photo posted here by Achim, (you can see the same photo Achim posted on page 36 of Anthology 1). *Note that the machine guns are not installed. *There have been questions as to why Fokker chose to take photos of this particular aircraft....what made it "special" or "noteworthy" to have a photo taken of it?

According to the acceptance sheets this aircraft had a Mercedes installed in it. *Also note there is no designation of D.VIIF, (I'm not certain if all BMW powered aircraft carried this designation or when they began this designation labelling on the aircraft, the first BMW powered D.VII was 231/18 ). *There is the postcard photo of 461/18 that is designated D.VIIF on the aircraft which can be seen reproduced on page 30 of Anthology 1.

As to your question about BMW powered D.VII's with the early production, here is a complete listing of the 46 BMW powered examples in the first batch of 300 Fokker produced D.VII's 227/18 - 526/18;

231/18
294
295 ? (this aircraft was accepted twice on two different dates, (May and August), and only the BMW is listed for the August delivery).
314
323
325
342
362
367
369
371
377
378
404
407
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
482
490
491
492
493
494
498
499
500
501
502
505

You can see Fokker received a good allotment shipment of BMW motors for the batch of aircraft from 448 to 469, (but remember the aircraft were not made in numerical sequence).

For some reason I don't have acceptance records for 525 and 526/18 on my spreadsheets so it is possible they had BMW's or it may have been they were the wooden D.VII's or something else, I'll have to look into it further or maybe Dan-San will have his references handy.

Best to all,
Dave W.

[Shooter]

Dave:

It gives me great pleasure to be wrong in this case, since it is not particularly significant. In any case, I enjoy seeing the thoroughness of your research.

Carry on & Semper Fi!


Shooter sends