Two Seaters

[PeterL]

Just suppose there was a book covering the great (by which I mean most significant) two-seaters of WWI. It might be similar in format to William Green's WWII books on bombers and fighters, with perhaps four aircraft from each of the nations producing aircraft of indiginous design and a lesser number from those which concentrated on licence production. My candidates for the British chapter are:


BE-2
Vickers FB5
RE8
Bristol F2B


This is my personal choice and there will be those who disagree. Can we come up with shortlists for the various chapters?

[gregoire]

French chapter
The voisin from day one to the end
The breguet 14
the salmson
the spad story of faillure
the AR1/AR2 the forgoten

[totoroman]

German two-seaters I'd like to learn more about....
Albatros line
Rumpler line
Roland C.II
Halberstadt CL.II

what I DON'T want is another book that just gives little snippets about each type ala Jane's or the vast preponderance of other books out there... I mean, I don't want an encylopedia. I've already got a few of those. I want something that would go more in-depth. with at LEAST 2000 words and some decent pictures and schematics for each plane. some of the aircraft types obviously deserve more attention that others.

I would want things like production numbers, some quotes from pilots and observers, combat reports, a bunch of stuff that a lot of people seem to take for granted for books about fighters.

there's never a shortage of books about World War II aircraft. it seems like every month there's yet ANOTHER book full of pictures of P51 Mustangs and P47 Thunderbolts... and while these a truly great airplanes, are these the ONLY planes that can "move copy"!?!?

[Rick]

Totoroman,

Speaking of the German two-seaters, production numbers and serial numbers should be fairly straight forward. However, reports from pilots and observers as well as combat reports would be extremely difficult to find. The material just isn't out there to be found. R.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Totoroman:
I find it interesting that you omitted the single most successful German two seater, It was in production longer and more were produced than any other two seater.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[totoroman]

...probably because I don't really know what it is! that's why I said I wanted to "learn more about" them. I have no idea what the most successful German two-seater was. all I know thus far is that their two-seaters looked a LOT better than most of their Allied counterparts (looks count for something, don't they

the Aviatik? it seems like they were certainly in it for the long haul. I picked the ones that, honestly, I actually have some vauge comprehension of.

I was going to include the LVG on my list, but somehow the others stuck out in my mind more. the DFW seems like it ought to be worth mentioning too...

honestly, I wouldn't settle for just four types of aircraft form each service, because everybody made so many different airplanes just trying to outdo each other.

so, um, is one of those two planes the one you were thinking of? actually, ALL of the German two-seaters I've read about seemed to be fairly respectable planes when they were first sent to active duty. (that just shows you how little research I've done thus far)

that's a bummer that there is so little in the way of combat reports--well, first-hand that is. it seems like the long, arduous path around that would be to start looking over combat reports of people who shot such planes down.

[totoroman]

I figured it was probably the LVG, but does somebody wanna correct me? if I'm wrong?

[Gregvan]

Dear Totoroman,

Aside from bending Dan-San's ear continually, here are two suggestions as to how to learn more about German two-seaters,

1. Find a copy of Peter L. Gray's "German Aircraft of the First World War" (Putnam & Company, or the Doubleday editions). While this old book is somewhat flawed by modern standards, it is still one of the best places to start. This book sometimes turns up on eBay, or can be found from used book dealers.

2. Actually, much of the research you ask for has been done and published, just not in one single work. I am of course talking about the superb series of Datafiles from Ray Rimell's Albatros Productions. Most of the German volumes have been authored by the amazing Peter Grosz, and offer superbly illustrated, detailed examinations of the aircraft - though, as mentioned above, first-hand combat experiences are lacking. Most of these are still available from the publisher. Here's a partial list:

No. 13: Albatros C.III
17: LVG C.VI
27: Halberstadt CL.II
35 : Rumpler C.IV
39: Junkers J.I
43: Halberstadt CL.IV
53: DFW C.V
55: Hansa Brandenburg W.29
57: Albatros C.I
61: Hansa Brandenburg W.12
63: Aviatik C.I
67: AEG C.IV
69: HalberstadtC.V
71: LVG C.V
73: Friedrichshafen FF 33E
75: Ago C.I
77: Albatros C.VII
79: Rumpler C.I
81: A;batros C.V
87: Albatros B.I

That's not counting all of the single-seaters, multi-engined bombers, and Allied types that have been covered.

By the way, from April 30 1917 until August 31 1918, the most numerous German two-seater ( C type) in frontline inventory was the DFW C.V, peaking at 51% of all C-types in August 1917 and staying above 40% for over a year. Idflieg eventually contracted for a total of 3955 DFW C.V's by the war's end.

Greg VanWyngarden

[totoroman]

I actually found a weblink to the publisher you mentioned after visiting the League of WWI Aviation Historians, as well as the Cross and Cockade website.

unforunately, I've just spent about $200 on WWI related books in the past month or so... and so my "fun money" is pretty much spent for the time being. my only fear is that they might all be in German... and my German is preettty rusty!

I got the impression that the LVG and DFW were probably the most numerous... but I couldn't remember which one it was.

hmmm, looks like it might be wise to bust out some International Money Orders... unless, that is, they'll accept a VISA debit card!

[PeterL]

Toto:

"... unless, that is, they'll accept a VISA debit card!"

They will. I have the whole series and you wouldn't part me from them with a tyre iron.