Say Can You See What Flag FoKker Flew at Schwerin?

[Roundel]

Cigogne:

The information about Fokker's German citizenship and knighthood came from a passing mention in a 1950's Göring biography and so it might not have been particularly accurate.

It is interesting that Fokker rediscovered his Dutchness with great alacrity after November 11, 1918. *

[Cigogne]

Roundel,

You are right! Doubtless he realized he would've become bankrupt in the postwar climate, or at least severely depleted. After going across the border and converting his Marks to Guilders he did a number on the existing Dutch aircraft companies who saw their contracts basically evaporate as Fokker set up shop and the Fokker D.VII and C.I pushed out any native competition.

Reminds me of some of Microsoft's business tactics and smaller companies.

Cigogne

Cigogne asked:

"I am wondering if the effect on the smaller central flag is light reflection due to it bending or waving in the wind, OR... it was put upside down on the flagpole. Was there a right and wrong way to display the German colors back then? Maybe in haste for the picture taking opportunity the flag was posted wrong way up?"

The flag is displayed correctly. *Reading down it is: black, white, red.



And further:

"Also, red is a fugitive color meaning more exposure to the sun (UV rays), the red will fade."

Please provide data on the light fastness of the red dye used by German flag makers in 1916. *Please provide procurement records and payment disbursements for flags at the Fokker Werke.

Until there is data showing Herr Tony Fokker had the balls to fly some faded, ratty flag of his sponsoring government, I will trust my eyes and say the photo points in the direction of its being shot on pan film.

Regards,
Stefen

[Rick]

If one wants to get really nit-picky, I propose that there is yet a THIRD flag pictured in the original photograph, on the right, and taken more-or-less end on. StefanK - what colors do your propose for the third flag (if it is indeed a flag and not a TV antenna)?? R.

[Cigogne]

Stefen,

What I was commenting about was that the smaller flag to the left on the peak of the building (I goofed and said central instead of left) and the larger one at center seem to be reversed in tonal value, hence my comment. I am not questioning your studies. I really am quite enthused with your studies and findings.

As far as flag procurement records, color fastness of dyes, etc. I will leave that to Achim and his project to recreate the Fokker Flugzeugwerke.

What I commented on was based on experience with any painted matter or dyed for that matter and the effects of weather/exposure, etc. on them. Red color molecules (and blue) are very sensitive to UV rays. I'm not talking photography here, but in general, cars, paintings, posters, etc. No matter what flag Tony Fokker was flying, you leave a flag up on a pole in sun or rain, whatever, you get color degradation. So, naturally that will affect how the color registers on ortho or panchromatic film if it is faded or fresh.

As a case in point, look at all the US flags that have gone up since September 11. None that I see on peoples houses look as pristine as the day they went up. The reds are less vibrant, the blues dingy, whites are now pale gray. And we live in the days of supposedly better color fastness.

Although none are ratty, they nevertheless show the effects of exposure.

Keep up the good work Stefen!

Cigogne

[Dave_Watts]

Hi all,

Just to muck up things I have to mention that the "flag" at the left can certainly be seen to be a windsock in later photos of the same exact building. :-X I'm not saying the "flag" at left is a windsock in this case, but I will say I have later photos of when it was used to fly a windsock not a flag.

Can anyone help me with posting an image to the site here? I don't know how to do it! ???

Best,
Dave W.

Good evening, David--

Long time, etc.

As far as posting images goes, you need to mount your image (I mean this in a strictly technical sense) on an Internet-connected server/Web site. *Then, when you are posting here, you hit the little image button (4th in the lower row above). *This inserts the HTML code and a placeholder, thus:

[ img]URL[/img ]

(The actual code doesn't have the spaces intervening after and before the first and last bracket.) *You replace "URL" by pasting (or typing) in the image address, something like

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/Images/img.gif

which is the address for the little image button itself, thus:



If you don't have a Web site of your own, you will need to depend on the kindness of strangers.

I would be very interested in seeing other pictures of the Fokker factory, especially with flags!

Cicogne: I must beg to disagree with you about the left flag. *The image can be found in the Albatros Publication Fokker D.I-IV, Classics of WWI Aviation. *The resolution of the reproduction is marginal, and the tonal rendition compromised by the distance between the flag and the camera position, but it too seems to be the German national colors, hoisted correctly, and with a (barely) lighter lower red band.

Best to all,
Stefen

[AchimEngels]

Dave,

send it to me and I´ll be happy to post it for you.

BTW, Liked my my mailing?

Cigogne,

now you have scored a hit! As a matter of fact I am working on 3D models of the area, too and I am indeed thinking of creating renderings also based on the findings achieved here. *;D These will serve as guidelines once the whole project may be turned into reallity - if this might ever happen! The 3D models are a good way to start as long as you can not go and afford for the real thing. *:

All the best!

Achim

[Cigogne]

Thanks for the reference StefenK! I know it has been out a while, still needing to add some Datafiles to my collection including that one.

Cigogne

Just by way of contrast, here are the German national colors as carried on Bäumer's Pfalz D.XII:



Best,
Stefen