Brothers von Richthofen

trackpad · 22 April 2006, 05:00 AM

Good Morning, All,

First of all, a big "Thank You" to those who have answered my several earlier postings on this site: I really appreciate all that I have seen here!
I have a concept in mind for a display. Key to the concept is identifying a date on which the brothers von R flew together, along with a fair certainty of the aircraft that they were flying. My only reference to date is my old Harleyford book "von Richthofen and the Flying Circus", Robertson, Harleyford Publications, 1959. Page 93 states, in part, "On March 12th, nine of their Bristol Fighters [62 Sqn, RFC] had set out on an offensive patrol over the Cambrai area soon after 10:00 AM. An hour later, Manfred, flying a triplane again, Dr I 152/17, and accompanied by Lothar and Leutnant Steinhauser had sighted the Bristols and were steadily reaching their height, some 18,000 feet."
This is the only concrete reference that I have found so far that places the brothers together and mentions at least one of the aircraft. I think that it is fair to assume that

LvR was flying Dr I 454/17 that day, the same aircraft in which he crashed the following day. So, can anyone corroborate the statement that, on March 12, 1918, MvR (152/17) flew an operational patrol accompanied by LvR in 454/17? Equally, does anyone have other dates and aircraft references in the same vein? Thanks in advance for any information received. Cheers!

Graeme · 26 April 2006, 01:55 PM

trackpad

The von R brothers certainly claimed at about the same time on 12 March 1918 - Manfred a Bristol Fighter at 11:15 and Lothar two more at 11:00 and11:10. I have no indication of the individual aircraft they were flying.

The only other occasion on which they claimed together (and were presumably flying triplanes) was on 23 November 1917; Manfred claimed a DH5 at 13:00 over Bourlon for number 62 while Lothar claimed a Bristol Fighter at 13:00 west of Seranvillers for number 26.

Graeme

Taz · 26 April 2006, 02:52 PM

Graeme- The Dr.Is were still grounded on 23 Nov and both brothers were flying Albatros fighters.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Rick · 26 April 2006, 04:04 PM

Well if you are looking for an occasion when

LvR and MvR were both flying Dr.I's together, there is the case of 30Oct17 when LvR was forced to land due to engine trouble in Dr. I 119/17 and MvR made an emergency landing in Dr.I 114/17 to provide aid to Lothar. 119/17 was OK but MvR totalled 114/17 in the process. The paint jobs on these aircraft are not my area of expertise. R.

Graeme · 26 April 2006, 10:58 PM

Terry

Thanks for the update; I'd always understood that the Dr1's had been returned to service in limited numbers by this time - I stand corrected.

Graeme

Taz · 27 April 2006, 09:49 AM

Rick- I always thought MvR had separated a cylinder from diving with the engine full on in 114/17. Was that

LvR instead who did the deed? Learn something new every day. That is the same day Gontermann died and Pastor went the next day, grounding the fleet.

Graeme- Your knowledge on British ops is so encyclopedic I cannot believe it. Dr.Is are about the only thing I know anything about.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Graeme · 27 April 2006, 10:58 AM

Terry

I should have gone with what I knew rather than what I thought I knew

The RFC/RNAS made a few claims over triplanes in September 1917 then nothing until mid-January 1918 - why the gap? because no Dr1s were around. Elementary when you stop and think about it!

Graeme

Taz · 27 April 2006, 11:29 AM

Graeme- Direct cause and effect. Funny thing is a Frenchman claimed one Triplane before the two F.I prototypes were even delivered to JG I. Total F.I/Dr.I claims were 375 by the allies, so that explains why there are now no original Fokker Triplanes in existence. Thanks to Norman Franks and Paul Leaman for those stats.

Taz
Terry Phillips