Hidden food for Fokker triplane experts

[Taz]

Dave, Dan-San, Aaron- I do not believe the V.7 in the background is WN 1981. 1981 was involved in a fairly heavy crash with MAG test pilot Josef Nemeth in Hungary when the rudder cable broke. Photos of the crash site show heavy damage to the V.7's fuselage, wings and tail surfaces. I do not believe the remnants would have been worth shipping back to Schwerin for repair. If repaired by MAG, I believe the A-Hs would have kept the aircraft. Only my opinion, naturally. See Paul Leaman's DR.I book for these crash photographs and the data I quote here.

Of the other V.7s, Dave's factory documents, which he kindly shared with us, show WN 1830 became Dr.I 100/17 which was delivered on 26 Apr 1918; WN 1919 fitted with a Goe.III eventually became DR.I 599/17, about which I have no info; WN 1788 was fitted with an Sh.III, participated in Adlershof, and its final disposition is unknown to me; WN 2054, which was possibly a V.7 fitted with Sh.III; and WN 2095, which was possibly a V.7 fitted with an Oberursel Ur.III and which eventually became Dr.I 469/17.

So it looks like the possibilities are WN 1788 further modified, WN 2054 further modified, or WNs 1919 or 2095 which match the configuration, but with Fokker playing some games to get paid for 599/17 and 469/17. Aaron was right earlier in that this aircraft has a large, likely 11 cylinder, single row rotary with extended fuselage and standard Dr.I landing gear and axle wing.

More research required.

Dave- Can you provide more info from the sheet which showed the V.7s as V.7A-? The copy I took off the Forum is too low res to read the details.

Taz
Terry Phillips

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Taz:
I am not confident on the fifth V.7,w.n.1984. Peter Grosz states there were four V.7 aircraft. I don't know were Douglas Pardee got his information. I know he has extensive information on Fokker Flugzeugwerke. Has anyone heard from Douglas? I have not for a very long time.
Blue skies,
Dan

[Taz]

Dan- San- I have 1984 as a standard Dr.I (400/17) delivered to Jasta 15 in January 1918. Also, I just dug out another document which says 2054 was a V.13 variant, so that is out. Dr.Is 200 and 201/17 WNs 1918 and 1920 flew with Goe.IIIs, the first at Adlershof, but they seem to be pure Dr.Is except for the engine. A photo of 2095 (Dr.I 469/17 eventually) at Adlershof has a fuselage which looks a little strange (you can see the gap between fuselage and lower wing, as on V.4 1661) but not lengthened. More research needed. One of Dave's factory documents only shows 4 V.7s but I cannot read it clearly. Right now, I would vote for 1788 or 1919 being the aircraft in the photo, with 1919 leading the pack.

Taz
Terry Phillips

[Laserlloyd]

Taz:

I have 400/17 being accepted on November 28, 1917 and dispatched on December 21, 1917 to yes, Jasta 15. So it would have then been delivered some time in January 1918 to J15 about two weeks after it was dispatch just as you stated.

Lloyd...

[Langdon]

Dave Watts,

I also believe this photo was taken after the war, I think this is evident from the casual manner in which the machines are being treated. There are other photos of this scene probably taken at the same time and these can be found in Datafile #25 page 30.

Dan-San,

I last saw Douglas Pardee in an old folks home in Melbourne Australia about six years ago, he seemed in a frail condition and was upset that he would possibly never see Texas again.

Langdon

[Langdon]

I wonder if this could be the same aircraft? Note the bare D.VII to the right of the V.7

Possibly this could also be the same aircraft.

Langdon

[gipsymoth236k]

Langdon,

Your picture of the D.VII in the background shows the double rudder horn modification that O.A.W. adapted. Is this an O.A.W. D.VII, or did Fokker incorporate this double rudder horn as well?

Regards, Gary

[Langdon]

Hi Gary,

I'm not really up on the D.VII but my understanding is Fokker produced double rudder horns as well.

Langdon

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Gipsymoth236k:
That change originated at Fokker, the change of duplicating the rudder control occured with the fourth order of 202 Fok.D.VII 7605/18 to 7804/18 in September 1918. This order was completed by 30 November1918. I believe this was a change that came from Idflieg. The elevator controls were duplicated and the aileron controls were independant.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Cigogne]

Langdon,

Thanks for posting the engine and front cowling photos of the V.7. It looks different than that on 90.04 although the engine appears to be an Sh.III. It is definitely the Sh.III powered example. The 90.04 cowling looked basically the same as the standard Dr.I cowling along the lower lip, but was bulged around the outer rim to account for the larger engine diameter caused by the 11-cylinders and had an extra hole in the upper center as well as two additional holes in the upper outer edges, making five cooling holes in all.

I have a copy of the first image of the Sh.III in the "spider" mounting. Have not seen the second image before w/ the three hole cowling faceplate.

There were five engine types fitted to V.7 airframes:

1. 160 h.p. Siemens-Halske Sh.III
2. 160 h.p. Goebel Goe. III
3. 145 h.p Oberursel Ur.III
4. 150 h.p. Le Rhône (St) by Steyr (MAG 90.04)
5. 110 h.p. Siemens-Halske Sh.I w/ Schwade supercharger to boost performance.

I have seen photos of 1, 4, 5. The cowling of the fuselage tucked back in the corner looks like that fitted to Oberursel Ur.III/Le Rhône (St) type engines. I believe that it is the airframe of the Ur.III fitted V.7. (wish some numbers were visible... or more photos turn up. I am thinking that the Sh.III cowling would've been deeper on account of the "spider" mount framing and front bearing for that engine. That tucked in the back corner looks to be of normal depth, but bulged outer area to allow cylinder clearance of the 11-cylinder engine. I have not seen what a Goebel Goe.III engine looks like, nor the V.7 fitted w/ that engine. Would like to!