Help in identifying compass please

Machinbird · 3 September 2006, 09:51 PM

I recently picked up what I believe to be a WWI German aircraft compass but it has a slight problem.....

Somewhere in its voyage through time, it lost either the compass card and associated markings, or the markings were cleaned off the compass card-I don't really know which for sure. It appears to be a later model Bamberg compass with lighting provisions through the bottom, but the bezel markings do not conform to other Bamberg pictures I have seen. The bezel is 11.5 Cm in diameter and is turned from aluminum stock. The body and bottom appear to be made from brass. The internal magnet and pivot assembly appear to be made from zinc. The Cardan mount is comparable to others I have seen except for the two large thumb screws on the outer gimbal which are clearly for electrical connections.

The key difference from the Bamberg (8 screw) bezels I have seen is that the number markings correspond to every 10 degrees instead of every 15 degrees.
Other than the number markings on the bezel, the only other external characters are the letters "Alk." below the liquid fill port which I believe stands for alcohol.
I would like to restore this compass to its original configuration if possible. I think the copper disc visible through the window is the actual compass card less markings. Can anyone help nail down what type of compass we have and what the compass card looked like?
Should there be any interest, I have pictures of the internal arrangement, and would be pleased to post those pictures as well.

Machinbird · 29 November 2006, 06:31 PM

I really could use a little help in identifying this compass manufacturer. Here are some pictures of some of the internal workings with the hope someone will recognize the thing and be able to clearly state, "That is clearly a ......(Plath, Bamberg, or ?)" The housing clearly shows the four cardinal heading markers which as I understand confirms it is an aircraft compass. The only other numerals not previously mentioned are the numbers 1696 on the rim of the bezel (probably a serial number).

An inside view of the housing.

The underside of the compass card.
Does anyone have a clue?

Marco_Sommerau · 30 November 2006, 08:05 AM

It is a late-war normalised Armee Kompass type III made by Bamberg. The manufaturer's label was normally fixed to the mount, not engraved in the case itself. So was your precise model 88 years ago:

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Colour is all black.

So were the missing markings on the rose:the N triangle is red, the rest black & white.

And so was the complete assembly including compensating mags and housing:

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Marco

Machinbird · 30 November 2006, 09:07 AM

Thank you Marco! That helps a lot.

I owe you one.

From the execution of the case and bezel, It was more Bamberg than Plath, but it is very nice to have a second opinion from someone who has studied the subject.
Do you have any idea of the paint or finish used on the compass card?
I suspect the old compass card was destroyed by improper compass fluid.

Makhpiyaluta · 30 November 2006, 10:28 AM

I've owned a compass exactly like in Marco's illustrations with the compensation magnets and all but that was not a Bamberg but a Sendtner Armee Kompas III. I had the original light bulb in it and it still worked

Willem

Jim · 30 November 2006, 10:34 AM

Would a compass like this have been used in an aircraft or some other kind of vehicle or boat? The reason I ask is there does not seem to be any sort of german air service markings and instead just an german army marking.

Machinbird · 30 November 2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makhpiyaluta

I've owned a compass exactly like in Marco's illustrations with the compensation magnets and all but that was not a Bamberg but a Sendtner Armee Kompas III. I had the original light bulb in it and it still worked

Willem

Willem, can you post a picture?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim

Would a compass like this have been used in an aircraft or some other kind of vehicle or boat? The reason I ask is there does not seem to be any sort of german air service markings and instead just an german army marking.

Jim, there is ample evidence of this type compass being used in aircraft. It appears that the design was adapted from boats, but the compensating system was almost certainly necessitated by the engine and steel fuselage magnetic fields. Why it was called an "Armee Kompaß" rather than a Flugzeugkompaß will have to be told by someone more knowledgeable than myself.
Sid

Marco_Sommerau · 1 December 2006, 03:02 AM

Machinbird, enclosed a detailed pic of the compass rose. Other than Carl Bamberg and Plath (main manufacturers), the same normalised compass was made by Ludolph, GNI, Sedtner, Hechelmann and Pfadfinder. Sorry, no idea how the painting was done. I think that most of the roses were enameled.

[IMG]

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Machinbird · 1 December 2006, 06:44 AM

Thank you Marco. The picture will be a great help to make artwork for the restoration.

I am seeing some variation from your last example in some of the small details. Although the details of the Cardan suspension are identical, the previously mentioned difference in the tick mark spacing on the bezel and also the number and type of screws used to attach the compass card to the magnet assembly stand out. Perhaps simply variation between vendors. Unless someone finds a picture by one of the other manufacturers, with identical features, it will be restored as a Bamberg.
Wasn't the Pfadfinder company bought out by Plath during WWI?

I seem to remember reading that somewhere. If so, that would eliminate Pfadfinder as a possible alternate.
Thank you again for your help Marco.
Sid

Marco_Sommerau · 1 December 2006, 10:40 AM

Pfadfinder existed still in 1919. But would not survive for long time, the same for Gesellschaft f. Nautische Instrumente, Sedtner and Hechelmann. Plath and Ludoph survived the war and will be major instrument manufacturers during WW2. The same for Bamberg, which in 1919 became Askania Werke. WW2 will finish with all them excepted Plath which is still today an important manufacturer of nautical instruments. The Askania name has been recently "resucited" as clock manufacturer in Germany.