Nieuport two machine guns

Sreiko · 28 October 2006, 12:25 PM

I have copy of drawings of Nieuport XVII from Winsodck Datafile and there is shown two options for armamant- one infront of windshield or the other above the wing. But is there option for both machine guns instaled?

Note- I have dial up and very ugly broadband so I have aproblem with search of forum- excuse me if I ask something which was already posted before

totoroman · 28 October 2006, 06:05 PM

well, if the researchers at Eduard are to be trusted,

Charles Nungesser may have flown a Nieuport 17 with a Vickers on the fuselage AND a Lewis gun on the top wing. I believe the reason for the RFC failing to adopt a fuselage mounted Vickers was a combination of bureaucratic inertia and the technical difficulties of finding an adequate synchronization gear for that particular gun... so it was easier to just leave squadrons with the wing-mounted Lewis rather than change the production schedules and processes back at home. I could be wrong though, it wouldn't be the first time!

Shredward · 28 October 2006, 10:42 PM

The Nieuport 17bis was Britain's first two-gun fighter, with a deck mounted Vickers and a wing-mounted Lewis. Very few were used by France, and they did not see widespread use by the British either - principally by RNAS 6 & 11. Perhaps Mike W will elaborate more - his recent book on Naval 6 is marvelous, and tells the story of this little known unit in great detail.
cheers,
shredward

StephenLawson · 28 October 2006, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shredward

The Nieuport 17bis was Britain's first two-gun fighter, with a deck mounted Vickers and a wing-mounted Lewis. Very few were used by France, and they did not see widespread use by the British either - principally by RNAS 6 & 11. Perhaps Mike W will elaborate more - his recent book on Naval 6 is marvelous, and tells the story of this little know unit in great detail.
cheers,
shredward

Nieuport 17bis? With the rounded fuselage?

Sreiko · 28 October 2006, 11:56 PM

I also have images which indicate that Serbian Nieuport XVII have two guns- I can post it if anybody is interesting

MikeW · 29 October 2006, 06:45 AM

The Nieuport 17Bis, yes Stephen - the rounded fuselage one, was used on the Western Front by Naval 6, for training by Naval 11, and during "working up" by Naval 9.

A fixed Vickers was mounted on the fuselage to port of the centre line and was synchronised by French Alkan-Hamy gear. A Lewis gun was mounted above the top wing firing just above the propeller sweep.

Whilst the Nieuport 17Bis, powered by a 130hp Clerget, appears to have had a performance equal to, if not actually better than the contemporary Sopwith Triplane, when fully fuelled and armed it behaved like a dog! Naval 6 was re-equipped with Camels by June 17 and the 17Bis was relegated to training squadrons.

Like many of the Naval squadrons, the Naval 6 Nieuport 17Bis carried some vivid markings, alluminium dope with red stripes and coloured cowls and wheel covers - an excellent choice for painting a model if only you could by a kit. I had to start with an Edouard 17, fit an Aeroclub Clerget, and skin the fuselage with thin plastic to give the rounded section - the fuselage stringers were scribed onto the inside of the skinning. I also had to create a new cowl that was less deep (front to back) and larger diameter.

The attached shot shows both guns, not very clearly, but you'll get the idea.

Sreiko · 29 October 2006, 08:06 AM

Hope that this two images could be of some help.

Romani · 29 October 2006, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeW

Whilst the Nieuport 17Bis, powered by a 130hp Clerget, appears to have had a performance equal to, if not actually better than the contemporary Sopwith Triplane, when fully fuelled and armed it behaved like a dog!

Hello, by "performance" I am assuming you mean speed, maximum altitude and climb, but that the added weight made it sluggish to control and worsening turn radius?

MikeW · 29 October 2006, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Hello, by "performance" I am assuming you mean speed, maximum altitude and climb, but that the added weight made it sluggish to control and worsening turn radius?

Exactly - and heavy controls as well, the standard Nieuport 17 was renowned for its light controls.

totoroman · 29 October 2006, 09:25 AM

THAT makes sense, the Nieuport was already such a light aircraft, adding an extra machine gun, plus the weight of all that ammo... and either machine gun could increase drag as well... so even if the performance didn't suffer, agility would. (more weight, same wing area--more induced and parasite drag and what-not).