Original Fokker D.VII for sale!

[JohnReid]

and now there are 8,it's still a dumb idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Note:
Being an "original unstored" aircraft may have been where the number three came from, or maybe the reporter was confused with the Albatros DVa.

[greatwarpilot]

Originally Posted by Varese2002

Is there information how it got there? Judging from the pictures it seems to be in marvellous condition, but a little bit tucked away in the collection for such a rare piece.

Fokker D-VII 68010/18 (Albatros Built) Brome County Historical Society Museum, Knowlton, Quebec

Varese,

This was one of 22 DVIIs brought to Canada as war prizes. Most of them operated out of Camp Borden for several years, not to mention used by Bishop and Barker in their business venture/by Barker in an air race.

As I understand it a local senator, George Foster, arranged for the DVII to be given to the Historical Society and it has remained there, more or less unmolested and unrestored ever since. The only exception to that would be in the 1960s when some minor restoration work was done by the RCAF Repair Depot in Trenton. Otherwise it is in extremely original and unrestored condition, especially when compared with the other "original" DVIIs listed on this thread.

They may have original frames, and engines and data plates but much of the detail that researchers can find from them about original DVII construction has been lost as their fabric has been replaced or much of the woodwork was restored/replaced.

The value of the DVII in knowleton from a research standpoint as an unrestored example is essentially unique.

From a historical standpoint it is the only remaining DVII war prize of the original 22 that is still known to exist. Would be a shame to see it leave Canada or worse yet to see it "restored" either to static or flying condition and thereby losing much of its value as an original source.

Sincerely

Edward

[Barker]

Originally Posted by greatwarpilot

Otherwise it is in extremely original and unrestored condition, especially when compared with the other "original" DVIIs listed on this thread.

They may have original frames, and engines and data plates but much of the detail that researchers can find from them about original DVII construction has been lost as their fabric has been replaced or much of the woodwork was restored/replaced.

The value of the DVII in knowleton from a research standpoint as an unrestored example is essentially unique.

Thank you, Edward.

This is the essential point.

[JohnReid]

Another point to consider is that this is just not any old airplane but an airplane of a design that was unique at the time in the evolution from biplane to monoplane.Some will argue whether Fokker was the first to think of this but there is no doubt that the "thick wing" was a very important step in aviation history.Given its original condition and its historical significance this aircraft is certainly a gem that most museums would be extremely proud to have in their possession.Where is the Canada Aviation Museum in all of this? come on guys lets get our act together before another piece of Canadian history goes down the tubes!

[JohnReid]

Edward,what is going on behind the scenes? is there any political will to keep this aircraft in Canada?I wonder if the French press here in Quebec is even aware of any of this.Cheers! John.

[DaveF]

The Knowlton Fokker has probably remained so original BECAUSE it hasn't been in a specialist aircraft museum, who would have 'restored' it!

[David_Layton]

I actually thought that everyone involved is wants to do the right thing. It is not a situation of random, indescriminant political correctness.

First, I want to commend the journalist. A well written, factual article. Better than what I get locally in St. Louis.

Second, the aircraft would be better tended for in an aviation museum. I think that the folks in Rockcliffe would be the best stewards for the aircraft. Question is does NAM have the money in their budget to purchase it?

By all means, keep it away from the Smithsonian, they are apt to hang it from a ceiling! Besides, they already lost the wheels on their DVII. Had these wooden ones attached. One of the dumb things they did in their exhibit.

[JohnReid]

I am sure like most museums they will claim that they don't have the money but I believe that if there is a political will ,there will be a way.I am just trying to raise a little awareness here to help save this airplane from the "highest bidder".

[greatwarpilot]

Originally Posted by DaveF

The Knowlton Fokker has probably remained so original BECAUSE it hasn't been in a specialist aircraft museum, who would have 'restored' it!

This is a good point in terms of understanding why it was not restored, but I don't think should it would necessarily suffer that fate today in a major aviation museum. David is correct in that museums do sadly lose items or mistreat them at times. That aside, I'm under the impression that the trend to restore all aircraft to "Factory new" condition has been diminishing in recent years as museums become more aware of the value to be had in retaining as much of the original artifact (aircraft) as possible even if being restored (not rebuilt) lightly.

I am speaking almost exclusively of non-flying museums since airworthiness standards require extensive rebuilding in many cases.

When it comes to casting a critical eye on the actions of museums in the past that have "restored" aircraft and thus potentially lost important original date (even if attempts were made to document it) one needs to look at the context, as in most historical issues. If these restorations were done decades ago, the prevailing wisdom of the day was to do such restorations. In other cases the aircraft may have been disassembled or in terrible condition when they received it and there was little choice but to restore it in order to make a suitable display piece.

For example the "original" DVII at the Canada Aviation Museum came to them with a Hall Scott engine and currently sits with no fabric and disassembled in their storage wing. Sure it’s an original airframe, and sure it’s a shame that it is in the condition it is, but what is the museum to do?

These questions are faced by all museums and the answer depends on many things including the prevailing museological techniques and attitudes of the day, and of course available funding.

In the case of this DVII, I agree that it has been preserved in its current state thanks to it’s rather out of the way and undisturbed location. If it must move, one would only hope it is to a place that will preserve its originality.

There are enough "restored original" DVIIs out there.

Perhaps the unrestored condition of the CAM's AEG Bomber or Junkers ground attack aircraft are indications of their current attitude towards German War Prizes and originality. This in contrast to their original Naval Camel (and other aircraft) that were extensively restored by Carl Swanson many years ago.

Sorry for the diversion from strictly discussing the fate of the Knowleton DVII, but this seemed an appropriate opportunity for a diversion into museum practice and how it has changed over time.

Sincerely

Edward

[Jim Bruton]

Any idea when/how the auction will take place?