Breguet's Aircraft Challenge # 206

[Varese2002]

Breguet's Aircraft Challenge # 206


A hazy picture, see what you can do with this one. Point is to be scored for an exact recognition of this machine. Admittedly I have photoshopped something out, otherwise I would give it away for the specialists



Kees

[Der Grüne Flieger]

I believe that is a Lohner Type L Flying boat.

Phil

[Rbailey]

I agree with Der Grune Fleiger. Is this the one (L78) captured by the Italians that started the Macchi line?

[Varese2002]

Both of you are right that this is a sort of Lohner flying boat, but this is not the Type L. Also not the one captured by the Italians and now exhibited in the museum in Vigna di Valle which you can find here in all its glory. Probably the only one of the Lohner flying boats left. A beauty of a machine, fabulous technology and craftsmeanship.



Kees

[Der Grüne Flieger]

Rbailey,

From my reading I found this;

The Austro-Hungarian Lohner Type T, serial L47, flown over the Adriatic Sea and forced down by Italian aircraft in April, 1916. This plane served as the model for a series of Italian Macchi flying boats.

You can find a picture at; http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Ryc.../AH/index.html

Phil

[Der Grüne Flieger]

Kees,

I found your picture, but still can't really pin down the type. The inscription on the picture was "lohnerparlalalbatros1916.jpg". I'm not sure what that means so, if the author is correct it's a Lohner/Albatros.

You can see that the hull marking looks like "s S 3".

Rosebud's had a pic of a Lohner/Albatros and in it you can see the outermost interplane struts match the photo you posted.

I've included both photos for review.

Phil

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Der Grüne Flieger

Kees,

I found your picture, but still can't really pin down the type. The inscription on the picture was "lohnerparlalalbatros1916.jpg". I'm not sure what that means so, if the author is correct it's a Lohner/Albatros.

You can see that the hull marking looks like "s S 3".

Rosebud's had a pic of a Lohner/Albatros and in it you can see the outermost interplane struts match the photo you posted.

I've included both photos for review.

Phil

Phil, I think you are on the mark, having found the original unretouched picture of the rare Austro Hungarian flying boat with the code sS 3. When you compare the picture of the Lohner with the designation L16, there are a lot of differences between the two. The sS 3 has a rotary engine, no dihidral and a different form of the hull.

Lohner designations are notoriously difficult to follow because of the factory designation (letters) and the K.u.K. Marine type [k.u.k. Seeflugzeugtype] which were also letters.

So the Lohner with the K.u.K. Seeflugzeugtype L , had the factory letter M. There were easier times for historans .

To make things even more complicated, different very authorotative books give different designations for the sS 3.

(1) The K.u.K. Seeflugzeug Type S with individual code sS 3 is a training flying boat [Schulflugboot] built by Albatros powered by a Stahlherz 80 hp rotary, which came into service on 16 January 1916. The caption gives that the picture shows Leutnant Banfield in Triest after an unsuccesfull action against a French aircraft on 14 March 1916. The ultra-sharp picture in the book clearly shows a machine gun in front of the pilot.
Source: Peter Schupita. Die k.u.k. Seeflieger. ISBM 3-7637-5426-1

(2)The K.u.K Seeflugzeug Type S (Mickl) were designed by engineer Mickl by the K.u.k Marinearsenal Pola on the Island of Santa Catarina. Seven machines in all were built of which sS 3 is one example. The engine was a 7-cylinder rotary Gnome.

Interesting is that the K.u.K. Seeflugzeug Type S was already given in 1913 to other types used by the Austro-hungarian Marine. For some reason the letter S was again used in 1915 - 1916, but to distinguish them from the long out of services of the original S type, they were designated sS 3. Life is certainly not made very easy for historians by this sort of bureaucrats
Source: Reinhard Keimel. Österreichs Luftfahrzeuge bis Ende 1918. ISBN 3-900310-03-3.

To conclude. There are clearly different opinions about this machine by the most eminent aviation historians on Austro-Hungarian aviation. This will be the closest we can get, I think.

In all fairness Phil earns a full point and the next one will be a lot easier. I had not realized myself that this one was so difficult .......

Kees

[Varese2002]

Der grüne Flieger has scored one point and within a hair's breath has entered the alumni (?) of the aces.

The scores after challenge # 206 are:

40.9 Varese2002
24.2 Dave_Kent
15.5 Rbailey
9.3 Rod Filan
8.3 YavorD
7.4 JohnMacG
7.0 Breguet
5.9 Cruze
6.1 joegertler
6.0 Eric Goedkoop
5.6 ercoupepilot
5.5 EdStevens
5.4 Colin A. Owers
5.1 bshatzer
4.8 Der Grune Flieger
4.4 Ross Moorhouse
4.3 edmondthieffry
4 greenknight
4 Gilles
3.7 dpolglaze
2.7 Berman
2.6 FOKKERJ
2 Tom L
1.2 Ransom E. Olds
1 Peter Zambori
1 Gregoire
1 Patrick
1 cubsfan4life
1 austin08
1 Cliff
.8 Machinbird
.6 Crankcase
.4 Vilkata
.2 Paul_J._Fisher

Previous challenges are on http://www.earlyaviator.com/br.challenge/