Can you help me in dentifying a propeller?

Hello!
I can't identify a woodenpropeller which seems to be a WWI.
The only markings on it are as follows:
110 PS
RHONE
D260
E222
H F I E E
N 30471

with below a made I can't see clearly which appear to be
Waidmannslust.

Could this be a German propeller for a Siemens or Euler (Nieuport's copy)?

Thanks very much!!!
VJ

[Kilian]

Hi Vincent and welcome to the forums, you could check here:

Wooden Propeller Forum :: View Forum - "Early" Wooden Propellers

or ask user rc.gardner on this forum

regards
Kilian

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Vincent:
It could also have been used on a Fok. DR.I and the Fok.E.V. The diameter is the size used on both Fokker machines..
Merry Christmas,
Dan-San

[gipsymoth236k]

Hello Vincent,

PLEASE do post a photo of this rare propeller! PLEASE!

Regards, Gary Sewall

[Taz]

Dan-San, Vincent- The propeller is a Wolff and the Wilhelm Wolff Luftschraubenwerk was located in Berlin-Waidmannslust. Most of the Dr.I props had a pitch of 2.30 meters and diameter of 2.62 m, but this is close at 2.22 m pitch and 2.60 m diameter. With this pitch it was definitely fitted to a fighter.

The SSW D.I was normally fitted with a counter-rotating Siemens-Halske Sh.I of 110 PS. This prop is marked Rhône for a LeRhône 9J or Oberursel Ur.II. The pitch and diameter for the SSW D.I would have been quite different, too, because of the 900 rpm rotation speed of the propeller. They were quite often fitted with four bladed props.

The Eulers were fitted with Oberursel U.0 and U.I engines and their props would have been most likely marked Gnôme because those two engines were Gnôme based.

The Fokker D.VI and E.V/D.VIII might be other choices to the Dr.I, as Dan-San said, and were faster than the Dr.I. Dr.I propellers were normally Axial, Heine, or Lorenzen. I am not sure on the D.VI or E.V, but they were normally fitted with Axial props like the Dr.I.

At least you know what it is now, even if we are not sure of the aircraft.

Is it for sale?

Taz
Terry Phillips

[rc.gardner]

I can see why TAZ thinks its a Wolff propeller because the Wolff decal includes the name Waidmansluft. This is an area in East Berlin. There were other propeller works there as well. One was Hugo Heine, who made this prop. It says so on the hub, although corrupted to H F I E E. This wide spacing is how Heine stamped their name on their props. The serial number is also in the Heine style and dates from around 1917. At this time Wolff serial numbers were in the 16,000 range.

Vincent, I would be most grateful if you could e-mail me a high resolution photograph of this prop. I am currently working on Volumes 3 and 4 of my reference book on WW1 props (French and German props respectively) and I would like to include this photo. I don't have one of this type.

With regards,

Bob

[Taz]

Bob- Thanks for the better research. I went through all my propeller ads from a 1918 copy of Die Luftschraube and Wolff was the only one from Waidmannslust. Naturally, and unluckily, there was no Heine ad. In all probability, then, the propeller is from one of the three Ur.II powered Fokker fighters, since Heine was one of Fokker's alternate propeller sources to Axial.

Taz
Terry Phillips

[rc.gardner]

Hi Taz,

I hadn't heard of Die Luftschraube. Was it published annually? I must try and get a copy.

It took me yonks to find out where in Berlin Heine were situated. They always referred to themselves as Heine of Berlin. I finally discoved the address' 58 Warschauer Strasse, Weidmannslust, Berlin. Hugo Heine was a furniture maker called to Johannisthal to mend a prop, and hence he became a prop maker and eventually Germany's longest surviving propmaker.

Bob

[Taz]

Bob- The book was published by Richard Carl Schmidt & Co as part of the Bibliotek für Luftschiffart und Flugtechnik and is Volume 20 of the series. I have books from the series published in 1916 through about 1921 and I think it went on longer than that. The volumes on engines are the most valuable. Die Luftschraube is not as valuable since it is mostly theory, but the propeller ads are worth the price, since quite a few have the company logo used on the propellers. Naturally, Heine is missing, but included are ETA, Axial, Anker, Reschke, S.P.W. (no emblem), and Wolff. Would have liked to have seen Lorenzen, too, but no luck there either.

I just saw the review of your two part CD WWI Aircraft Propellers in C&C Int. Is it available directly from you and will you do a hard-bound edition? I imagine Schiffer would jump on it. I am in the process of picking up an Axial propeller, but it was not from a fighter.

Incidentally, during collecting and writing the C.XII Datafiles, I have very high resolution photos of several German propellers. Let me know if you are interested.

Taz
Terry Phillips

[rc.gardner]

Hi Terry,

I contacted Schiffer about the book but received no reply. So at the moment it is only in CD form published by my company.

But I have an ulterior motive in publishing it myself. I don't regard myself as an expert, in the sense that I am well aware that I don't know all there is to know about my subject. There are several aspects of my two volumes so far published (a broad introduction to WW1 props and details of British props) where research has failed to yield the results that I need. So I put notes in these places to readers to contact me if they can contribute. Each time they do I amend my book. We don't hold a stock of our CDs. We burn off a new CD for each order (about 5 or 6 a week). The next CD will have about fifty more pages and thirty more photographs than the very first produced in September.

I am now starting on Vols 3 and 4 on French and German props. I plan a tour of the major European museums in January and February to gather data.

The answer to your question is that we have published the first two volumes on one CD. It is only available from us. It costs £27.50 gbp to cutomers in the States ( about $58 usd depending on the exchange rate ). If you let me have your address Terry, we'll send you an invoice with instructions on how to pay us by credit card through PayPal. Any other forumites who would like a copy should go to our website using the link on my signature block below.

With regards,

Bob