E types in the East victories

James A. Pratt III · 21 January 2008, 06:59 PM

Does anyone know how many victories were scored on the Eastern front by Fokker and Pfalz E types? I know about their victories on other fronts but, there in nothing on the Eastern front. Note the Fokker E was flown by but the GAS and the KUK.

YavorD · 22 January 2008, 06:39 AM

The only example over Bulgaria, as much as I know.
Werner Wagener, Kasta 38, September 30, 1916.

Regards,
Yavor

Cigogne · 22 January 2008, 12:09 PM

Also the Turks had a few Fokker and Pfalz E-types on hand. Buddecke, Meinecke, von Bülow, and a pilot named Streckfuss as well who flew them.

kristjanr · 23 January 2008, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cigogne

Also the Turks had a few Fokker and Pfalz E-types on hand. Buddecke, Meinecke, von Bülow, and a pilot named Streckfuss as well who flew them.

Most of the Eindeckers flown by the German/Ottoman forces in Turkey and the Middle East were Fokker E.II/III and at least one E.I. The only Pfalz Eindeckers I remember in this theater were flown by FA300 in Palestine. AFAIK FA300 never achieved any victories with the one Pfalz E.II that survived for any length of time. The FA300 Pilots who flew it claimed it's performance was not much better than that of British aircraft used in this theater such as the BE2C which were mostly obsolete or obsolescent. FA300 much preferred the Rumpler C.I as a fighter which was much faster than most other aircraft it had to face in Palestine and they scored a number of victories flying the C.I as a two seat fighter. It kind of corroborates what another German pilot (whose name I can't remember at the moment) said of the Pfalz Eindecker, the quote went something like: "The Pfalz Eindecker is about as suited to being a fighter as a cow is suited to playing the lute". The Fokker Eindecker however scored a number of victories in this theater, including a fair number of kills in the Gallipoli area. This would have been during the closing phases of the battle of Gallipoli and during Allied operation over the months following the battle.

James,
When you say Eastern front I assume you are looking for details on operations on the Russian front only? If not I can dig up some details on individual victories in the near and middle east.

Cigogne · 23 January 2008, 04:34 PM

I have seen photographs of what appear to be two different Pfalz Eindecker aircraft at FA 300. One is in factory standard finish with black cowling and forward fuselage panels, edging, etc. and appears with Hans Henkel in front of it. There are two more views showing a Pfalz Eindecker with a white (light) colored cowling with a Totenkopf (Death's head) insignia at the top center face of the cowling where the Pfalz/Morane badges would be fastened. The wheel covers are also painted white. The Totenkopf would have been Walter von Bülow's marking since he was a Hussar and that was the insignia of his unit and was on his cap band and he served with FA 300 and flew the Eindecker during part of his stay there. So, was it the same aircraft remarked? Or were there two Pfalz Eindecker aircraft in Palestine with FA 300 Pascha?

Kirk R. Lowry · 23 January 2008, 07:05 PM

Bonjour James

I am aware of the following victories claimed by pilots of the Austro-Hungarian air service while flying such aircrat -

Mathias Bernath, Flik 4, flying Fokker E.I 64/15 (German designation), Fokker A.III 03.51 (Austro-Hungarian designation) was given credit for a victory over a Maurice Farman on November 25, 1915 in the vicinity of San Lorenzo di Mossa.

Mathias Bernath, Flik 4, flying E.III, A.III 03.42, and Heinrich Kostrba, Flik 4, flying E.I 64/15, A.III 03.51, were given credit for a victory over a Caproni Ca.1 (No. 478) at 8:45 on February 18, 1916 in the vicinity of Palmonova.

Heinrich Kostrba, Flik 4, flying E.I 64/15, A.III 03.51, was given credit for a victory over a Caudron at 9:25 on February 18, 1916 in the vicinity of Monfalcone.

Max Brociner, flying E.III, A.III 03.41, Ludwig Hautzmayer, Flik 19, flying E.I 65/15, A.III 03.52, Heinrich Kostrba, Flik 4, flying E.I 64/15, A.III 03.51, with assistance from an aircraft from Flik 8, were given credit for a victory over a Caproni Ca.1 (No. 703) at 9:50 on February 18, 1916 in the vicinity of Merna.

Max Perini, Flik 19, flying E.III, A.III 03.42, was given credit for for a victory over a Voisin on May 10, 1916.

Ludwig Hautzmayer, Flik 19, flying E.III, A.III 03.42 was given credit for a victory over a Caudron on August 9, 1916.

Adolf Heyrowsky, Flik 19, flying E.III, A.III 03.42 was given credit for a victory over a Voisin on August 15, 1916 in the vicinity of Cormons.

Stefan Huzjan, Flik 19, flying E.I 65/15, A.III 03.52, was given credit for a victory over a Voisin.

Towards the last days of 1916 the Fokker aircraft still capable of service (E.III, A.III 03.47 being one) were sent to units on the eastern front, those being Fliks 1, 8, 9, 13, 25, 29.

Sharks Among Minnows by Franks,

Above the War Fronts by Franks, Guest, Alegi,

Austro-Hungarian Army Aircraft of World War One by Grosz, Haddow, Schiemer, Air Aces of the Austro-Hungarian Empire 1914-1918 by O'Connor were consulted to compile the above data.

Salut!
Kirk

Catfish · 24 January 2008, 12:17 PM

Hello,
there was also another german pilot flying a Pfalz Eindecker, Pilot Jentsch, having flown AEGs, Halberstadts and a Fokker E (no exact info on that plane), at Schwerin, before he was commandeered to "Armeeflugpark" 13 at Nisch, Hungary together with a befriended aviator, Schiebel.
Jentsch's squadron belonged to the "Feldfliegerabteilung" 30 and 66 in the Balkans. Later it belonged to 30 alone. There is also a Leutnant Eschwege (the "Eagle of Drama"), belonging to Feldfliegerabteilung 66.

Jentsch was disappointed when he heard of having to fly a Pfalz Eindecker, which he calls a copy of the french Morane-Saulnier. His Pfalz-Eindecker was Nr. 445/15. He tells a lot about this plane, but not which exact model it was - there were two different "Schulterdecker", and a "Hochdecker" like the Morane Parasol - but i don't know which one he flew - anyone ?
There were two rather unsuited "airfields" in the gorges of the river Wardar near, and the first winged "enemy" he shot down was an eagle that had attacked his plane several times.
After almost crashing after a stall he writes that, in relation to the Fokker Eindecker, the Pfalz is "as suited for aerial combat as a cow is suited to play the lute". Jentsch fought against several french planes, and put bullets in them, but he never brought anyone down with the Pfalz. From the book it looks as if he shot down one french aviator with a Fokker Eindecker during his time at the eastern front.
His friend Schiebel is the first to shoot down a french Farman biplane, an X-tail as he writes, with a Pfalz.
Later he gets a Pfalz EII 125/16, after his first plane has been destroyed by enemy artillery.
In november 1916 Jentsch is transferred to the western front, training on Fokker E Is to E IVs, and DIIs to DVs.
Sorry, i would have to reread the whole book to get better numbers... so it makes two ...

Greetings,
Catfish

Uhlan · 24 January 2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirk R. Lowry

I am aware of the following victories claimed by pilots of the Austro-Hungarian air service while flying such aircrat

Did any of these sucessfully use the Schwarzlose? I seem to remember most KuK Fokker Eindeckers used the German Maxim 08.

kristjanr · 24 January 2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cigogne

I have seen photographs of what appear to be two different Pfalz Eindecker aircraft at FA 300. One is in factory standard finish with black cowling and forward fuselage panels, edging, etc. and appears with Hans Henkel in front of it. There are two more views showing a Pfalz Eindecker with a white (light) colored cowling with a Totenkopf (Death's head) insignia at the top center face of the cowling where the Pfalz/Morane badges would be fastened. The wheel covers are also painted white. The Totenkopf would have been Walter von Bülow's marking since he was a Hussar and that was the insignia of his unit and was on his cap band and he served with FA 300 and flew the Eindecker during part of his stay there. So, was it the same aircraft remarked? Or were there two Pfalz Eindecker aircraft in Palestine with FA 300 Pascha?

The initial complement of FA300 to arrive in Palestine was IIRC (I'd have to look it up) 6 Rumpler C.I (Most seem to have had no forward gun) and two Pfalz E.II one of whom had serial 448/15 (According to Turkish historian B Ylmazer) which agrees with the serial list in datafle 59 by P M Groz. At some point one of the Pfalz E.II fighters was either cannibalized or crashed because after that the word used in FA300 records is "The Palz" singular. It therefore seems that only one Pfalz E.II survived (448/15??). It was eventually replaced with a Fokker E fighter in August 1916 to everybody's relief since the Pfalz seems to have proven to be pretty useless. I don't suppose you could either tell me where you saw those photos or confirm whether there are any serials visible in them? The serial should be written in quite small script above the Cross Pattée on the tail fin. I'm very interested in FA300 and would like to get a look at these photos. I'd also be interested to in where to find photos or details of the Fokker E that FA300 operated.