Fokker 403/17

flygilmore · 22 February 2008, 05:44 AM

Trying to gain insight to the question on 403/17 that I have about the rudder-
is it painted black or olive????

All artwork I have seen shows a black rudder but the one photo I have seen appears as though it is olive.

What is your opinion and why-I have posted this before but not really gained anything with only one or two people responding.

thanks!!

Edit: Taz just responded and supports the idea that the rudder is olive

Laserlloyd · 22 February 2008, 07:42 AM

flygilmore:

I believe you had emailed me too but you didn't specify a specific plane and time. You just asked if the rudders were black or green in which I said they were white at the time of acceptance.

So if were now talking about Dr.I 403/17 there is some speculation on the color black or green. There is a early photo of 403/17 with the white rudder in a line up of J6. The later photos show the darker color.

Lets first talk about 525/17 of J6, this is seen when MvR visited J5 and it has the black and white tail plane or stabilizer over-painted along with the rudder over-painted black. This color scheme seem to have been adapted to some of the other planes in J6. Point in case, Wihelm Reinhard commander of J6 crashed sometime in march 1918 also shows the black and white over-paint along with the rudder.

Now back to 403/17. We know that Ltn.

Johann Janzen had his stabilizer over-painted with the same black and white strips and that the rudder was also over-painted. If J6 was adapting the black and white strips and black ruder than why would Janzen had painted his a different color. After all he did have his personal makings of the plane.

To me (not a color expert) it would make sense that 404/17 would have had the units markings and that would lead us to the black and white strips on the tail and a black rudder.

I think that some of the confusion may come from the two profiles of 403/17, one from the left side and one from the right side. One side looks to be lighter then the other profile but the angle and quality of the photograph make hard to determine. The other side profile does look more black and would have to say the this is the true color.

This is just my uneducated guess...

Lloyd...

flygilmore · 22 February 2008, 02:31 PM

Thank you for your detailed explanation. Do you by chance have a link to the other photos you were talking about?? The one I have posted is the only one I have seen and is all that I have to base the decision on in terms of rudder color.

Thanks again!!

Laserlloyd · 22 February 2008, 03:22 PM

flygilmore:

I'm not at home but I'm returning tomorrow and I will look for them.

Also Greg VanWyngardan has them in many of is books thats if you have them.

I still would like to here from Greg, Taz and Dan-San to get there insight.

Lloyd...

flygilmore · 23 February 2008, 03:41 AM

Thank you again and yes, I would like to hear from those folks as well. I have PM'd Dan San I know four times now with no response so I don't know what the situation is there

. I would like to hear from several people and then make an informed decision based on the consensus.

Thanks again!

Laserlloyd · 23 February 2008, 01:47 PM

flygilmore:

I have look at the other photo I have which I will post soon but here is the big news, the rudder is black and was outlined in white around the outside of the rudder. I have to crop the photo and will see if I can post it tonight.

Lloyd...

Laserlloyd · 23 February 2008, 02:34 PM

flygilmore:

Here is a close up from the right side. You can see why you thought it was green because of the sunspot that is shining off the paint the is causing highlights and darker areas from the sun-spot then the photo your looking at is at a lower resolution were the image start to blur.

403/17 right side rudder: color black with a white trim:

(Photo from the Terry H. Phillips Collection)

Here is a closeup from the left side showing the black rudder and the white trim.

(Photo from the Terry H. Phillips Collection)

So after 90 years we have solved this mystery and have gotten down to the truth, this new discovery helps us better preserve the Dr.I history for the future historians of tomorrow.

Lloyd...

Kilian · 23 February 2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flygilmore

Thank you again and yes, I would like to hear from those folks as well. I have PM'd Dan San I know four times now with no response so I don't know what the situation is there

. I would like to hear from several people and then make an informed decision based on the consensus.

Thanks again!

Dan San attends a funeral he will be back in some days.

Laserlloyd · 23 February 2008, 02:59 PM

My condolences to Dan-San and wish him the best...

Lloyd...

Taz · 23 February 2008, 10:05 PM

Lloyd, Gilmore- Both 525/17 and 403/17 appear to have the standard JG I olive overpainted rudder to me. JG I misinterpreted the Idflieg directive on rudder crosses and wiped out the white rudders with olive paint. Greg is the real expert on this subject and this is just what I think I see. But then I saw a real Dr.I in the Fokker model photos, too.

Taz
Terry Phillips