THE HISPANO-SUIZA V-8 718 & 1127c.i. CRANKSHAFT PROBLEMS

[airplane176]

Bill Gunston says in The Development of Piston Aero Engines, pg122 that the reduction gears in the Raf Memorial Flight SE.5a were replaced with ones of modern tooth form and better material designed by apprentices at RAE Farnborough, among other details.

The flat (180 degree) crankshaft is fine in a short stroke, long rod engine. Vibration analysis and balance were poorly understood then. Copper pipe fatigues with vibration. Castor oil is a natural substance, therefore somewhat variable in composition. Making large Aluminum castings without porosity and consistent material properties throughout is still something of an art form. Detail design that reduces stress risers was not an intuitive matter as it is today. Metallury has advanced significantly in the intervening years.

Looking back it would seem that all of these played apart in the Hisso's difficulties and those of other period engines.

Roger

[m9a3r5i7o2n]

Stadt Freital

The small city that made oil during WW-2. Altho it is in German and no translation.

More about the oil in Germany.
Translated version of http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhenania-Ossag

Google Answers: Where did Nazi Germany get its Oil in WW2?

Yours, M.L. Anderson

[m9a3r5i7o2n]

Voltol & the Fokker D-VII



http://www.aerodromerc.com/WWI/Fokke...I_55_5_8.htm\\


HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE

The legendary Fokker DVII featured a very thick wing, even thicker than the Dr.1. There were no rigging wires which compensated for the extra drag of the deep airfoils. The power was no longer the radial engine but now the Mercedes and later the BMW water cooled in line variants. These power plants offered more horsepower and were more reliable. Castor Oil used by the radial engine was supplanted by Voltol an oil derived from coal. Castor Oil was embargoed by the allies and Voltol simply wasn't working. Shortly before von Richtofen's death, he wrote that it was his opinion that the radial engine had no place any longer in the war due to the mechanical failures caused by the new oil. He wrote that he much preferred the Fokker DVII and would take it with an supercharged engine if that was required to get rid of the Triplane. It was normally intended to be supplied with a supercharged Mercedes. There is a Swedish connection to the success of the later Fokker designs. Swedish engineer, Villehad Forrsman had been building aircraft in Germany with the SSW-Forrsman firm. Forrsman provide Fokker with patent and engineering consulting services. Another Forrsman company in Germany, Forrsman,Bruenig & Sohn, AG a large plywood manufacturer offered to produce at no charge, plywood covered wings to Fokker's specifications. The Fokker DVII had plywood covered leading edges. While the wings were strong enough to not need bracing, an interplane strut-less prototype of the DVII was tested and found to be slower and not as maneuverable. The DVII's fuselage was of steel tube construction which gave the structure great strength. It was feared for a time that there would be a shortage of steel tubing so both Albatros Werke, a DVII licensee and Fokker produced wooden, plywood prototypes. The shortage did not occur. von Richthofen flew the DVII in prototype form against an Albatros DVa in the fighter trials and won. He liked the aircraft but said it handled poorly. Still it was good enough to beat the fastest German fighter of the time. Fokker immediately modified the DVII prototype and rectified the deficiencies. Upon flying this aircraft von Richthofen was very impressed and had two of his Jasta pilots test it as well. The report was that it was very good but didn't climb as well as expected. When fitted with the more powerful 200 hp BMW engine the aircraft was spectacular. Pilots on both sides remarked about the fighter's excellent flying qualities. Interestingly, von Richthofen was supplied with a new Fokker DVII at the time of his death but on that fateful day, he chose to fly his old Triplane.


Yours, M.L. Anderson

[m9a3r5i7o2n]

Ref. Manual Lage's Book Page # 482 Line # 13
43 8Fa /300 V-8 14x 140 %.5 C.R. 300 C.V. / 1,900 r.p.m. 320 / 2,000 r.p.m. 2,000/1,500 274 kilograms 1917 Prototype with 30/40 gearing.
Moteur-canon with 5 shot automatic gun.

Also on pages # 59 Paragraph # 3, Line # 2 & 3 are the words,
“In theory, the simple engine should have come first in design because it corresponds to its number type, No. 42, whereas the engine with a reducer had a higher number, No. 43. However, the latter must have been developed earlier, because in the official listing of the French Air Ministry, No 43 is called 8-Fa and No. 42 is 8-8Fb.

Yours, M.L. Anderson

[shackleton]

Originally Posted by m9a3r5i7o2n

Of all the messages I have found, this is the best one explaining the usage of castor oil from the first usage in the very early 1900’s and why the mixing of castor oil with mineral oil by Castrol was needed around 1910. A careful reading of this will explain why castor oil is not fully needed anymore except to get the smell that really only show up in engines of the two stroke type as Rotary Radials are very very rare these times of 2008.

Yours M.L. Anderson
http://www.penriteoil.com/uk/techbul...llofCastor.pdf

The smell of castor oil is just as distinct from a four stroke engine as it is from a two stroke engine.

[m9a3r5i7o2n]

I have just been re-reading the SUNBEAM-COATALEN MANUAL on 8 & 12 CYLINDER ENGINES dated October 1916. On pages 38 & 42 it states that the consuption of oil is based on the usage of usage Castrol R Oil. This is the first place that I have seen that the usage of this oil was almost official. Also if this brand is not available pure castor oil should be used.

CHAPTER III is from pages #25 thru page #43 all of which is about lubrication!
Yours, M.L. Anderson

[m9a3r5i7o2n]

Since I have been every place I could find I believe this is at an end as the “Proof “ of what I have been looking for is not going to surface if it was ever there!

Proposition; The reason that M. Birkigt made a big mistake may have been that he expected all the aircraft using the Hispano-Suiza 8B engine to be using Castrol R which is not the same as Pharmaceutical Castor Oil. If he expected that these engines to use Castrol R he failed to place any notice in his regular manuals or Notice to Mechanics in the Field to do so which Sunbeam did in their manuals. I am now wondering if other manuals called for this oil to be used.

Another big mistake is expecting already overworked mechanics to do all the babying of the heating of the oil as stated in some of the Hispano-Suiza documents.

Yours, M.L. Anderson

[m9a3r5i7o2n]

Hispano-Suiza Engines
Notes for Squadrons in the Field
Page # 19.
Paragraph # 9. The following is a suggested oil orders”-
Paragraph (ii)


(n.) Oil tins will not be opened unless they are
scrupulously clean outside, and for this purpose tins
will be cleaned overnight and stood in the flight
hangar covered with a cloth. These tins are made
absolutely clean inside by the contractors who fill
them, and their contents should be transferred
direct into the tank.

It somewhat makes one wonder why they needed special crews just to handle the oil somewhat and if and what were the instructions by the companies as to the type of oil to be used and was it supposed to Castrol R and not the straight Pharmaceutical Castor Oil.

Yours, M.L. Anderson

[shackleton]

Interesting.

Who are the contractors the instruction refers to? Surely there would not be contractors on RFC/RAF stations.

It sounds as if the oil tins in use on the airfields were not filled by Castrol (Wakefields).

I would assume that with the quantities of oil that a squadron would use it would be supplied by the lorry load in 45-50 gallon drums. from Castrol Perhaps these were set up in a stillage and five gallon or smaller 'tins' filled from them to transfer to the engines. If these were reused the cleaning of the would obviously be important. Contractors? surely not on RFC airfields.

How easy was replenishing the oil on a HS mounted in an aircraft. A five gallon tin would weigh about 50 lbs (Imperial gallons not US) so might be inconvenient in use but that would have to be balanced out against decanting it to one gallon tins.

A more obvious solution would be to mount the 45 gallon drum on some sort of trolly and use a hand pump and hose to fill each engine.

[m9a3r5i7o2n]

shackleton:

I have been looking for an old view of a setup for the oil can you have just described and it was (If I remember correctly?) very much like what you described. It was in a post about a German way of doing it but it is some time ago and I am possibly remembering it mistakenly.
Yours, M.L. Anderson