THE HISPANO-SUIZA V-8 718 & 1127c.i. CRANKSHAFT PROBLEMS

[shackleton]

Thanks Kacey

Actually the credit for the formulae belongs to the late George M. Aldrich a genuine tribologist :-)

I didn't know about voltan being available in the first war It just shows how much continuity there is! It seems Shell make it now but there was a factory producing it in Dresden during the 2nd world war. If it was still intact at the end of the war presumably the plant will have been dismantled and taken to Russia.

Apparantly 2nd world war voltan was a blend of rapeseed oil and mineral oil.

[KACEY]

Originally Posted by shackleton

Thanks Kacey

Actually the credit for the formulae belongs to the late George M. Aldrich a genuine tribologist :-)

I didn't know about voltan being available in the first war It just shows how much continuity there is! It seems Shell make it now but there was a factory producing it in Dresden during the 2nd world war. If it was still intact at the end of the war presumably the plant will have been dismantled and taken to Russia.

Apparantly 2nd world war voltan was a blend of rapeseed oil and mineral oil.

It's referred to as "Voltol", or T50. I was first produced for usage in WWI as an alternative to Castor Oil.

The Germans were hoping to come up with a replacement for Castor Oil which they could not obtain. So they developed T50 (a sort of synthetic castor oil)(50% Voltol (rapeseed and fish oil) and 50% mineral oil)

As "Taz' pointed out in a previous post, it didn't work to well, and led to cylinder bluing and overheating during the late spring/early summer when Dr.I operations were winding down except for rare cases. Surely, effected the performance of the Fokker D.VIII also.

The most likely reason for the cylinder "bluing and overheating" was the "viscosity breakdown" causing "stick-slip effect", followed by engine seizure.

That would be my "best guess".

KC

[m9a3r5i7o2n]

Also we must remember that the Hispano-Suiza engine didn’t have to worry as much as a Rotary Radial as to the burning in the combustion chamber. In comparison to both of the engines very little was passing thru the combustion chamber of the Hispano-Suiza (They hoped). Most of the V-8s made by Hispano-Suiza did need to be de-coked but a lot of that may well have been due to lousy oil rings of those days!

I am also trying to get a line to Castrol to see how much Castrol they provided to the British Armed Forces during WW-1!
Yours, M.L. Anderson

[m9a3r5i7o2n]

AUTOTECHNICS - spare parts & service

CASTROL
Brief History
Charles Cheers Wakefield started selling lubricants in 1899, and in 1909 introduced the brand name 'Castrol', as the oil was a blend of Castor oil and mineral oil. (Cheers was not a nickname, but his mother's maiden name.) Castrol became Britain's leading brand of lubricants in the 1930s, partly because it was not tied to a petrol company, so its products could be sold by almost all UK service stations, but also due to a clever marketing strategy. Castrol supplied oils to many racing cars, aircraft (including the first transatlantic flight by Alcock & Brown) and as many as 21 world land speed records. Technical advances included adding a detergent to oils in the 1930s and the world's first semi-synthetic oil in 1953. International expansion followed, eventually leading to its purchase by Burmah in 1966. Later European expansion included buying the German-based regional operations of Veedol from Getty Oil in the 1970s, and Optimol in 1990. Along with the rest of Burmah, Castrol was acquired by BP in 2000 and it remains one of the top six lubricant brands world-wide, with operations in over 140 countries and a particular strength in some of the developing markets, such as Vietnam.

Yours, M.L. Anderson

[DeCavel]

Dear KC, Shackleton and others,

As third generation descendant of the manufacturers of what you call VOLTOL (my father is the grandson of the founder of the additive manufacturers De Cavel & Roegiers in Belgium, and nephew of 2 other former directors of the company) I wish to briefly inform you about the true story of the Voltol production in Dresden, Germany during WWII. For more details you are free to ask me by email for a copy of the History of the company which I will be glad to send to you.

My great-grandfather Leopold De Cavel started as a director at the manufacturing site in Belgium of the world famous Elektrion R additives used in oils. These additives were invented by a Belgian Professor in 1907 who started a company in 1909 which L. De Cavel lead for the next 47 years. One of the early licensed importers (by 1911) were the Oelwerke Stern Sonnerborn AG in Germany (later taken over by Shell) who did NOT produce but merely distribute Elektrion R under their own brand Voltol.
BUT during WWI the German army had seized the Belgian Elektrion company and tried understanding the production process to copy it in Dresden. Which they did and by 1939 they were producing 10 times more than the Belgian company did before WWII. Under German threat the elektrion company was closed down during WWII. However, the Germans lacked a lot of technical details, fruit of decennia of improvements & research, that were important to obtain a proper endproduct.
During the war, this German company thus made voltolized oils for the Navy (e.g. torpedoes), the Aviation (V2s & planes) and other military vehicules to replace the mineral oils that were very hard to get. Due to the lack of production know-how they made poor blends which led to some break-downs. Some, because these blends were excellent for the majority of their use.
Other companies started developing the additive and nowadays we count more or less 4 producers, of which 3 mainly European companies. They produce but very few actually sell the additive to other companies.

I hope you have a clear view on how it went,
best regards,

O. Vercammen, great-grandson of L. De Cavel Director of
Société des Huiles De Cavel & Roegiers, Belgium

[shackleton]

De Cavel

Welcome to the Aerodrome forum and congratulations on your first posting and what a fascinating posting it was!

Do feel free to share anymore details I'm sure all readers of this thread would be interested. For example was the Dresden plant destroyed in the bombing of Dresden or was the plant spirited off to Russia at the end of the war?

[DeCavel]

Originally Posted by shackleton

De Cavel

Welcome to the Aerodrome forum and congratulations on your first posting and what a fascinating posting it was!

Do feel free to share anymore details I'm sure all readers of this thread would be interested. For example was the Dresden plant destroyed in the bombing of Dresden or was the plant spirited off to Russia at the end of the war?

Dear Shackleton,

Thank you for your kind reply. Yes I know what happened to the plant. It was completely bombed except for one small wall. I have found the story somewhere on internet, as soon as I find the link i'll post it up here.

05.08.08: here is the link (in German) from the City of Freital explaining that only a small building was left after the bombing of the Ossag (Voltol) company..4th paragraph: Stadt Freital

Best Regards,

[m9a3r5i7o2n]

This below was found about the Hispano-Suiza 1127 cu. in. engine at :

http://www.histavia21.net/amaviapag/37%20mm%20S.P.A.D%20Canon.htm

Moteur généralement comparable au type 42 auquel on adjoint un réducteur permettant le montage du canon de 37 des types 38 & 44. Aucune photo ni aucun documents à part une soixantaine de plans pour la plupart de détails particuliers, n'ont à ce jour été retrouvés, permettant de retracer sa carrière. Il semblerait que c'est ce moteur qui fut retenu pour le SPAD XVIII qui ne vola jamais, les essais au banc ayant relevé un niveau vibratoire tel que son montage sur avion était impossible.


In general a comparable motor in the type 42 in which they take on a reductor one allowing the assemblage of the cannon of 37mm of types 38 and 44.
Neither any photograph nor any documents apart from about sixty blueprints for most particular details, have to this day been found, which would have allowed the redrawing of its career.
It would seem that it is this motor which was kept for the SPAD XVIII which was never flown, tries on the dynamometer having raised a vibratory level such as on this assembly on an aircraft was impossible.

Yours, M.L. Anderson

[m9a3r5i7o2n]

Just after writing the post above I received my copy of the above document from Britain "the national archives"! There are 4 complete pages. The missing page was page # 2 and is a sketch of the connecting lateral clearances of the Rods in situ by sizes of widths labeled, " Tolerances Regards Lateral Float of Connecting Rod.".
Page # 3 starts out with the words, "There should be no end shake of the propeller shaft in its bearings, nor excessive play in the re-) end of sentence. There are only 4 pages total that I received! I know of no others.
Has anyone more pages? I would be grateful if you would let me know.
Yours, M. L. Anderson

[Ransom E. Olds]

M.L.: Does not the word "reductor" not merely refer to the gearing set for a geared engine? A Hisso mounting a cannon firing through the propellor hub can't be a direct drive type as far as I can see, so it seems to me they are referring to a geared engine mounting a cannon. Is this your understanding? Ransom