Photographs related to WWI US Air Service

[c.hill]

Hello.

I recently posted the following to a subforum, however, I thought the whole Aircraft Forum might be interested in helping us identify some of the aircraft and places or events in the photographs:

This is my first time on this forum, and I have no expertise in World War I aircraft, so, please forgive me in advance for any misnomer's or incorrect references. I am an Archivist and am processing a collection of a WWI veteran. There are many images in his papers that we have been able to identify, however, there are two images in particular of what appear to be Nieuport 28s with unusual art on the right side of the planes. Each is a separate piece of art and neither have markings that indicate a particular squadron (such as "Hat in the Ring"). Both pieces are individual representations, one appears to be US soldiers crossing a battlefield (that plane has tail #3985) and the other depicts a soldier on horseback shooting at a wolf (no tail # is visible). Each cowling (?) also has separate art.

All of the images are posted on-line at http://157.89.125.137:8080/imagedb/i...Submit+request

The collection is the Walter J. Binder Papers. He served at Romorantin at the Air Service Production Center No. 2. There are some excellent photographs of the facility and planes being assembled (including the 1000th DH-4) and others that we would appreciate any help in making proper identification.

thanks,

chuck hill
University Archivist
Eastern Kentucky University

[Varese2002]

Hi Chuck, unfortunately I got a return HTTP Status 404 - /imagedb/i...Submit+request on your link. Would like to have a look on your pictures though. From your description they must be very interesting.

Cheers

Kees

[c.hill]

sorry about that - the link should be:

University Archives - Search Image Database

and then type in Binder to get the images (the other link was my search that has expired).

[Varese2002]

Hi Chuck. Interesting collection, I found especially 2004-026-0057 Captured German observation aircraft an intresting one, but unfortunately is the picture too small to make a precise definition.

I leave the special paintings on the Nieuport to the specialists in that field.

Judging from the pictures Walter J. Binder was intrigued by the Chinese laborers who were working in the neighbourhood.

Cheers

Kees

[Aquilius]

Kees,

that´s the one I wondered as well.
It is marked with thin late war crosses, but from the first view I don´t know what it is. The picture is pretty small.

I would set it up in the ID challenge if I´d know.


Aquilius

[Rbailey]

The openings in the cowling, the radiator, the center section struts and the aileron balance look LVG CV and don't fit seem to fit the other common types. Don't know how to account for the top of the engine though.

[Aquilius]

Rbailey,

well spottet. Seems your eyes aren´t as tired as mine.
But in europe midnight has passed by a while...

2004-026-0057:

LVG C.V :


The "M"-centre struts are not clear visible here, but you get an idea.
See also the rounded wing-tips and these ailerons are not very common.
And now I believe to see a tailfin in the same shape.

It´s just the nose looks unusually long in the collection picture. Maybe that´s because someone (Walter ?) is standing where the lower wing meets the fuselage?


Chuck, thank you very much for sharing the photographs. I can´t help you with the squadron the Nieuports served, but both are sesquiplanes with V-interplane-struts - so the the ID in the table Ni 24 or 27 is correct, judging from the fuselage and tailplane. (Ni 28 was a biplane with wings in equal shape and parallel interplane struts)

In "Nieuport Aircraft of WWI" by J.M.Bruce is written the Ni 24 and 27 were virtually identic and differed only by a divided-axle undercarriage. Two Ni 24 are illustrated with serial N3961 and N3760. That´s close in the range of your number. The Ni 27 serials are in the N5000´s.
So I would tend to Nieuport 24. But there is one Nieuport 27 with B3650.
I don´t keep production batch lists, maybe someone out there has better references.
(By the way, the Nieuport 24bis had the steel-tube tail of earlier Ni types with the "Comma-tailfin". That´s not the one on your pictures, at least where the tailplane is visible.)

Hopefully that helps a little.

Cheers

Aquilius

[Rbailey]

Also, the picture I was going by has a spinner, which makes the nose look a lot more like the machine shown. There is one in the Gray and Thetford book; also the Harleyford book by Lamberton.

[Aquilius]

Originally Posted by Rbailey

Also, the picture I was going by has a spinner, which makes the nose look a lot more like the machine shown. There is one in the Gray and Thetford book; also the Harleyford book by Lamberton.

Rbailey,

thanks for the hint. I´m missing nearly all of the books mentioned in the forum. Maybe I can get a few of them some day.

Aquilius

[Cigogne]

They are both LVG C.V aircraft...no mistake! You can tell by a lot of different details. The captured machine has the same shaped louvers in the exact same locations. These are an LVG only hallmark. The cabane structure also is a match.