Jasta 18, Red and White DR1 of August Raben

iart7 · 21 April 2008, 09:35 AM

Fokker Dr 1 in Jasta 15/18 (Raben)

Since the above thread is closed, I need to start a new topic. I have understood that the red/white Jasta 18 Raben plane was actually 2 planes. One was 581/17 and the other was 479/17.

I have seen a photo of the plane that I believe is being inspected by the French and it shows Latin style crosses. The raven is white and this must be 581/17. Since I am painting this plane, I want to label the Fok DR1 581/17 on the proper plane.

My QUESTION has to do with the Raben plane I have seen around the net in color photos and models that shows a MALTESE cross. Is the Maltese cross plane also 581 or is this the one that is 479? Or were they painted at one time with both Maltese and later with Latin crosses?

Here is my artwork so far (I realize the bird and the border between red/white needs to be moved rearward a bit more):

If I may post the vintage photo, here it is:

Thank you and comments are welcome,

Art

Dan_San_Abbott · 21 April 2008, 08:10 PM

Iart7:
Fok.DR.I 581/17 was taken as war booty after the war. It was repainted in the French five color camouflage after the war. It was operational up to the end of the war. It has been claimed that Ltn. August Raben used it for Balloon busting. I think Fok. DR.I 479/18 is the machine he first used.. Ltn Wilhelm Kühne was shot down in German lines on 28 August 1918, while flying another Fok.DR.I. He had attacked a US Army, 6 th Balloon Company balloon and was shot down for his effort. Hereturned to Jasta 18. At this time Jast 18 was equipped with the Fok.D.VII, but had a few Fok.DR.I for balloon attacks.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

StephenLawson · 21 April 2008, 09:41 PM

The engine cowling should be white. The image you have is reversed.

iart7 · 22 April 2008, 10:23 AM

Thanks, Mr. Lawson,

I saw your exellent model and have changed the color of the cowl. Is your model 581/17? I also changed to the balkan cross, however I like the Maltese cross better. I have Fok DR1 581/17, but probably need to make it a little larger and overpaint it with red paint, right? Is the red too bright RED, should I de-saturate the red color more? shift it more to magenta?

I will reverse the reference photo. I received it or found it that way but heard it was right-left. I didn't do it. uh, wait... both my parents have touches of Alzheimer's ... I can't really be sure if I might have refersed it to help with re-drawing the birdy.

Thank you again,

Art

Cigogne · 22 April 2008, 08:08 PM

Is the red too bright? No, actually it isn't bright enough! Jasta 18 (Raben) aircraft were painted a brighter vermillion red, not a darker red as you've got depicted here. Also, initially, the aircraft had white cross fields w/ wider Balkenkreuze, and in it's early vermillion/red state didn't have Eisernekreuze. It also didn't have the "Rabe" insignia painted on the fuselage either initially. So, there are two variations to do... and a third if you want to do the postwar captured version... w/ the Nieuport 21 style horseshoe open faced cowling.

iart7 · 23 April 2008, 08:50 PM

Mr. Lawson, please help once more...

Studying the b/w photo (vnrbnb.jpg), I think I see where the Maltese crosses (especially on the rudder) were overpainted with white paint before the Latin crosses were applied.

Was this plane 581/17?

Are there any b/w photos of the Maltese cross Raben plane?

Did the Maltese cross version also have a white cowl?

Thank you,

Art

PS: Sorry for not thanking you earlier too, Mr. Abbott!

Taz · 23 April 2008, 10:28 PM

Art- You can paint it with Eisernes-Kreuz markings. All the photos I have seen of 479/17 and 581/17 in Jasta 18 colors show Balkankreuz markings, even one with Albatros D.Va aircraft partially marked with both styles of crosses. The only photo of 479/17 with Eisernes-Kreuz marking is one with it fresh from the factory in factory streaked camouflage. That does not prevent you from showing one with the older style crosses, because they were most likely painted that way at one time.

Taz
Terry Phillips

iart7 · 23 April 2008, 10:44 PM

Thanks, Terry,

I had pretty much decided to go with the B-K but a friend reminded me that the Mal-- er, E-K was more striking and was the one I liked first and most. I've got it both ways, but will likely submit the earlier E-K marked plane, especially when I noticed the rudder on the photo (vnrbnb.jpg)

Salud!

Art

StephenLawson · 25 April 2008, 01:03 AM

All Fokker Dr.I types arrived at the front with the Iron crosses. I have a great 8X10" image of Dr.I 581/17 in enemy hands behind it is the Nieuport type 12 that the cowling, propeller and 110 hp Le Rhône 9J came from. They put the Dr.I cowling on it in exchange. It was painted in the French 5 colour camouflage style. I think that it was even recovered for this. The Dr.I cowling here was white too.

Being a fan of August Raben I guess I have a little insight to his career and I am chasing a version of Dr.I 479/17 from early 1918 with the Iron crosses. If I am lucky I'll publish the image. Yes as early as late April 1918 it has a white cowling.