Nose Spinners

Pips · 21 April 2008, 03:42 PM

I knew of McCudden's addition to his Se.5, and his claim that it improved his speed by 3mph. But I wan't aware that Mannock had also modified his Nieuport with the addition of a spinner. Anyone have any details on it?

By the by I found out about this through Alex Revell's superb new book "British Single-seater Fighter Squadrons on the Western Front in WWI". Am really emjoying reading this book!

Dan_San_Abbott · 21 April 2008, 07:50 PM

Pips:
That is a great book, its part of my bed time reading.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

izstew · 21 April 2008, 08:37 PM

I believe Bishop also added a bightly colored spinner to his plane but I cant remember the details. It must have been in his autobiography as that is really my only in depth read about him.

Pips · 22 April 2008, 01:05 AM

Dan, I think Alex must get paid by the lb, most of his books are very weighty.

When you buy one of Alex' books you certainly get value for money!!

TomVrille · 23 April 2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pips

... I wan't aware that Mannock had also modified his Nieuport with the addition of a spinner. Anyone have any details on it?

Howdy Pips...
There is a colored rendition of Mannock's Nieuport 17 with its' yellow spinner on the dust jacket of the book 'Mick' by James M. Dudgeon. The aircraft was serial B3607, flown by Mannock while serving in 40 Squadron RFC. It may be recalled that Mannock was accused of avoiding combat during his early days with 40 Squadron, and the yellow spinner is said to have been Mannock's response to his squadron mate's suggestions that he suffered from "cold feet"!

Taz · 23 April 2008, 07:44 PM

Tom- Interesting. B3607 was actually a Nieuport 24 according to Nieuports in RNAS, RFC and RAF Service. Only reason I know is I looked to see if they mentioned the spinner, but they did not. I wonder if the aircraft had a spinner or a "cone de penetration". The latter was affixed to the crankshaft through the prop hub and did not rotate.

Albert Ball had one on his N.17 A213. Some RAF N.16 (5172 for example) aircraft had true spinners, however, so no reason one of those was not fitted to a N.17.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Pips · 24 April 2008, 03:33 AM

Thanks for that info Tom. Is that why Mannock chose the colour yellow? A form of throwing down the gauntlet?

Mark Turner · 24 April 2008, 11:15 PM

If you are looking for a couple of published photos of the Nieuport with the Spinner, the photo of 40 Sqn on page 54 of Nieuports in RNAS, RFC and RAF Service appears to have the Spinner fitted Nieuport in the background.
In Nieuport Aces of World War 1 by Norman Frank there is a photo captioned as Mannock in the cockpit of his spinner fitted Nieuport on page 28.
Regards
Mark

TomVrille · 24 April 2008, 11:30 PM

In Dudgeon’s book 'Mick', there is an illustration showing a side profile of Mannock’s Nieuport 17 with the yellow spinner. This is presumably the illustration upon which the dust jacket picture is based, since color references are called out for various features of the aircraft. The indicated serial number is B3607. The credit for this illustration, along with profiles of two SE5as said to have been flown by Mannock, is given as Giltspur Engineering. I am guessing that this firm provided graphics support for Dudgeon’s book, based on information provided by the author. I cannot determine the original sources of this aircraft related data.

According to this illustration, and the photo in Nieuport Aces of World War 1 the ‘spinner’ clearly turns with the propeller, and is therefore a spinner (casserale d’helice) rather than a cone of penetration (cône de pénétration).

I cannot explain the discrepancy if B3607 was indeed a Nieuport 24. According to Dudgeon, the only Nieuports flown by Mannock with 40 Squadron were either Nieuport 17 or Nieuport 24bis machines. The relevant serial numbers, presumably extracted from combat reports, are given as B1552, B1682, B3451, B3465, B3554, and B3607. It might be a worthwhile effort to see if a spinner is mentioned for any of these other Nieuport serials.

The yellow color of Mannock’s spinner seems to be a reference to cowardice, but it is unclear if this was meant as a challenge to squadron mates, or to Mannock himself. Can anyone clarify this point?

Mark Turner · 26 April 2008, 01:21 AM

Tom

I looked through Nieuports in RNAS, RFC and RAF Service for those serials and couldn't find any reference to a spinner being added. Interestingly Ronny Barrs colour profile of B3607 on page 30 of same book doesn't show a spinner. However Harry Dempseys colour profile (plate 6 page 34) in Nieuport Aces of World War 1 of B3607 has a yellow spinner.

With regard to Mannock using the colour yellow, perhaps he just liked it. His biography Ace with One Eye quotes McScotch as mentioning that Mannock wore pale yellow socks and a tie and also had a yellow silk hankerchief.