Breguet Experimental aircraft

theflyingsultan · 27 April 2008, 09:45 AM

Hello all,

I have an old postcard printed by F. Frith and Co. Ltd. picturing a Breguet Experimental biplane. The text on the front says "Army Biplane, Farnborough".
I know that the picture was taken at the Royal Aircraft Factory and I think that Geoffrey de Havilland himself might be sitting in the rear seat of the aircraft.

What I am trying to find out is which model this aircraft actually is. In all the pictures I have found online of Breguet Experimentals, the aircraft have four-bladed propellers. This particular plane has a two-bladed propeller. I am wondering whether this was a one-off model (pre-production maybe?) Any info which could help to identify this aircraft would be highly appreciated.

Aquilius · 27 April 2008, 10:25 AM

Hello Sultan,

I´m wondering where you found the name 'Breguet Experimental'?

The picture you have here shows a RAF B.E. 2.
B.E. stands for “Blériot Experimental”

(the aircraft was developed from a Blériot monoplane that was converted in a biplane)
With this you may find a lot more about it.

The B.E. 2 was built in a lot different series. 2, 2a, 2b, ... until 2g (was that the last?)
A couple of thousands were built.

The one on your photo actually must be a very early variant. It had non-staggered wings, and no ailerons – the stearing around the longitudinal axis was done by wing-warping.
I think it is a B.E. 2 or 2a.

Cheers

Aquilius

theflyingsultan · 27 April 2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquilius

Hello Sultan,

I´m wondering where you found the name 'Breguet Experimental'?

Hi Aquilius,

Haha, I am wondering that too. Of course it is Bleriot Experimental... I have no idea what made me write Breguet

I did find several pictures of the B.E. 2, 2A and other versions online, but none of them have two-bladed propellers like the plane in this picture. That is what puzzles me most. Do you think that this could be the very first B.E. 2, equipped with a 2-bladed prop which was then changed to a 4-bladed one?

Varese2002 · 27 April 2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theflyingsultan

Do you think that this could be the very first B.E. 2, equipped with a 2-bladed prop which was then changed to a 4-bladed one?

This is not the first or a very early B.E.2

Quote:

The earliest B.E.2s had wings of unequal span:
there was no decking between the seats, but a small cowling
was fitted behind the engine and gave some protection to the
observer, who occupied the forward seat. Later B.E.2s had
wings of equal span, and a short decking was fitted between
the seats.

This is a later B.E.2 machine with equal span and decking between the cockpits. I have looked through all the pictures of the B.E.2 that I have, but have found none with a two bladed propeller

No explanations for this two-bladed one.

By the way Aquilius, variants for the B.E.2 go from B.E.2 till B.E.2e. You are too enthusiastic.

Cheers

Kees

Aquilius · 27 April 2008, 02:07 PM

Salamaleikum again!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Varese2002

Quote:

The earliest B.E.2s had wings of unequal span:
there was no decking between the seats, but a small cowling
was fitted behind the engine and gave some protection to the
observer, who occupied the forward seat. Later B.E.2s had
wings of equal span, and a short decking was fitted between
the seats.

Thank you Kees, for getting that in an order.

I wasn´t sure which one had the unequal span.
Has that been the main difference apart from the rear engine cowling between the B.E. 2 and B.E. 2a?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Varese2002

By the way Aquilius, variants for the B.E.2 go from B.E.2 till B.E.2e. You are too enthusiastic.

Kees

The last part might be true.

I did not want to left the flying Sultan in the rain alone.

To the B.E. 2 variants:
I´m learning everyday and this Aerodrome forum offers many sources they are new to me. Out of one thread (I have to search it again) I took the info of a 2f and 2g type. I´ve marked both with "further information needed".
Maybe they didn´t went in production - I don´t know.

What I found there is:

B.E. 2f - was a version of the 2c with the staggered wings of the 2e.
B.E. 2g - had the fuselage of the 2d and wings of unequal span in 2e-style.

Maybe someone has more about it?

Cheers

Aquilius

theflyingsultan · 27 April 2008, 02:20 PM

Hmm... that still leaves the unsolved mystery of the two-bladed propeller.
I am much more into modern civil airliners but all this research for finding out the exact story of this plane is certainly very interesting! (and hopefully also rewarding at the end).

Is there maybe an archive of the Royal Aircraft Factory somewhere, or a museum where someone might have further details?

Varese2002 · 27 April 2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquilius

I wasn´t sure which one had the unequal span.
Has that been the main difference apart from the rear engine cowling between the B.E. 2 and B.E. 2a?

To the B.E. 2 variants:
I´m learning everyday and this Aerodrome forum offers many sources they are new to me. Out of one thread (I have to search it again) I took the info of a 2f and 2g type. I´ve marked both with "further information needed".
Maybe they didn´t went in production - I don´t know.

What I found there is:

B.E. 2f - was a version of the 2c with the staggered wings of the 2e.
B.E. 2g - had the fuselage of the 2d and wings of unequal span in 2e-style.

Maybe someone has more about it?

Cheers

Aquilius

Hi Aquilius. The Royal Aircraft Factory seems to have designed the B.E.2 specially to wreck later historians. But .. you have not got me right. The very early B.E.2 machines had unequal span, later B.E.2 machines had equal span and seperate cockpits. So ... the unequal versus equal wing still makes it a B.E.2

About the sub-types. The experts who have written for years on the B.E.2 (and have not been nerve wrecked) have never mentioned any version after the e version. So there must be a lot more evidence than a mention on the internet

By the way the quote I gave over the equal / unequal span is from the late J.M. Bruce, expert of long standing of British aeroplanes 1914-1918.

Cheers

Kees

Varese2002 · 27 April 2008, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theflyingsultan

Hmm... that still leaves the unsolved mystery of the two-bladed propeller.
I am much more into modern civil airliners but all this research for finding out the exact story of this plane is certainly very interesting! (and hopefully also rewarding at the end).

Is there maybe an archive of the Royal Aircraft Factory somewhere, or a museum where someone might have further details?

You could look up details of the B.E.2 in at least two books completely devoted to the Royal Aircraft Factory

Hare, Paul R. The Royal Aircraft Factory. London: Putnam Aeronautical, 1990. ISBN 0851778437

and

Hare, Paul R.

Aeroplanes of the Royal Aircraft Factory. Crowood aviation series. Marlborough: Crowood, 1999. ISBN 1861262094

Cheers

Kees

Doc · 27 April 2008, 11:43 PM

Hare's book, referred to previously, notes that BE-2c fuselages with BE-2e wings were referred to in France as BE-2F, and that BE-2d fuselages with BE-2e wings were referred to as BE-2G. This was apparently terminology used primarily in France by the RFC HQ, but some aircraft of these designations were returned to the UK under the new designations. The same book also shows a few photos of BE-2s with two-bladed props, but they all appear to be BE-2b, c, or e models. Doc

theflyingsultan · 28 April 2008, 12:26 AM

Thanks for all your valuable replies! So I can now safely assume that the aircraft is indeed a BE2, version b, c or e.

It appears to me that the two-bladed propeller version was quite rare, no? I wonder what the reason was to fit a number of aircraft with this type of prop? Any ideas?