Breguets Aircraft ID Challenge #424

Aquilius · 16 June 2008, 08:27 AM

Welcome Ladies & Gentleman to Breguets Aircraft ID Challenge #424!

While today almost everybody is looking to Vienna, where the match of matches is going on tonight,

I have something different you may follow up, if you´re not interested in soccer.

[Image]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj311/aquilius-files/Rumpelkiste/BAC424.jpg[/Image]

Isn´t it a beauty? Let´s see how long it will last.
The score will be splitted to the designation and the name of the designer in 0.5 each.
I´m not sure but I believe it is the man standing in the photograph.

Our Scoreboard is:

79.5 Varese2002 ¤
57.9 Dave_Kent ¤
41.0 Rbailey ¤
15.5 YavorD
13.5 Froggy
13.3 Rod Filan
10.8 Cruze
10.7 Aquilius
8.1 Breguet
7.7 Dan-San
7.6 Flamingo
7.6 trp81
7.4 JohnMacG
7.1 Colin A. Owers
6.7 EdStevens
6.3 Patrick
6.1 joegertler
6.0 Eric Goedkoop
5.8 richard B
5.7 Ampovandak
5.6 ercoupepilot
5.5 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger
5.3 Crimso
5.3 Der Grüne Flieger
5.2 Doc
5.2 Gilles
5.2 GregE
5.1 bshatzer
5.0 Tom L
4.7 dpolglaze
4.4 Ross Moorhouse
4.3 edmondthieffry
4.0 greenknight
3.7 Berman
2.5 Gregoire
2.1 Crankcase
2.0 Rickenbaron
1.7 Kilian
1.6 sergio_vitalio
1.3 Cigogne
1.2 Ransom E. Olds
1.0 austin08
1.0 Cliff
1.0 cubsfan4life
1.0 gregorydquist
1.0 Luf-Rick
1.0 Mike Westorp
1.0 paolomiana
1.0 Peter Zambori
1.0 rammjaeger
1.0 sobrien
0.8 Machinbird
0.8 tbstreet
0.8 toxisch
0.6 Sreiko
0.5 Martin Irvine
0.4 Vilkata
0.3 albapfalzd3
0.2 Paul

Previous challenges: Aeroplanes 1914 - 1918* -* Breguet's Aircraft Challenge* --

The rules :

The thread title must be "Breguet's aircraft ID challenge #......"
The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning and end of each thread so that we know where we are.
The completed aircraft must have been either; designed, built or have left the ground during the '14-'18 period and be identifiable by the poster.
The photo must show the whole aircraft - from whatever angle, or at least 2 views of a 3 view drawing (photo by preference).
Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified
(always check the list at earlyaviator.com/br.challenge when in doubt !)
Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they become an ACE. Once they become an ACE they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of an aircraft for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the aircraft is submitted.
The final arbitor in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

That´s all from me, now it´s your turn!
Have a good hunt on this one.

Cheers

Aquilius

Varese2002 · 16 June 2008, 01:08 PM

As a non-soccer fan I already saw this one. Aqui you are right this is a beauty

Cheers

Kees

Aquilius · 16 June 2008, 04:53 PM

Kees, I thought you must have it on your "to post" list.

Do you think someone will find it in a day?

Or we see us in the morning.

By the way, I wonder if you´re not becoming a soccer fan, watching Holland play. Normally I wouldn´t say that, but it´s just: Hup Holland Hup!!!

Cheers

Aquilius

Varese2002 · 16 June 2008, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquilius

Kees, I thought you must have it on your "to post" list.

Do you think someone will find it in a day?

Or we see us in the morning.

By the way, I wonder if you´re not becoming a soccer fan, watching Holland play. Normally I wouldn´t say that, but it´s just: Hup Holland Hup!!!

Cheers

Aquilius

Aqui, you are right we see us again.

This is the Siemens-Schuckert-Werke Bulldogge designed by the enigmatic Villehad Forssman. On the picture we see the second version powered by a Daimler engine (quote from Lange) or Mercedes (quote from Gray-Thetford). Plane is from 1915.

Be assured I am not becoming a soccer fan.

Cheers

Kees

Aquilius · 17 June 2008, 07:05 AM

Kees, you are performing good!

It is Forssman's Bulldogge! I haven´t read about Siemens yet, but he became/was Chief Engineer there - so he might have built it at the SSW.

Where it appears, it is mentioned as Prinz Sigismund von Preußen's monoplane "Bulldogge", as Forssman designed it for him (as a racing single-seater?).

So far I know, it was built in early 1914 and "legitimised Forssman as a leading aircraft-constructor" and he was appointed to join the Siemens-Schuckert Werke as Chief Engineer shortly after.

Quote:

Früh im Jahre 1914 baute Forssman für Prinz Friedrich Sigismund von Preußen einen Eindecker mit dem Namen "Bulldogge". Damit legitimierte er sich als führender Flugzeugkonstrukteur, denn schon kurz darauf ging die Nachricht um die Welt, er sei vom Elektrounternehmen Siemens-Schuckert zum Chefingenieur für die Abteilung Flugzeugbau berufen worden

This and the picture are out of the book:
"Meistens flogen sie doch" from James Gilbert, Schweizer Verlagshaus 1978

Finally I´ve listed the powerplant to be a 120 hp Argus As.II, what may have been the first version. I just can´t look in, because the engine is fully enclosed.

For the second version powered by a Mercedes engine, Lange & Gray-Thetford both are right. The Daimler company was producing "Mercedes" engines (their trademark). [There hasn´t been a "Mercedes company"]

Do you have anything about it´s flying history. To me it looks like a very clean and advanced design (if from 1914), apart from the following Forssman planes. It might be a little short, but anything else than tail heavy.

Cheers

Aquilius

Aquilius · 17 June 2008, 07:24 AM

Kees, what to say? - Another score fro you!

Congratulations Kees!

And now you break the magic mark of 80!

Again and again: Hup Holland Hup!

The Scoreboard after Challenge #424 is:

80.5 Varese2002 ¤
57.9 Dave_Kent ¤
41.0 Rbailey ¤
15.5 YavorD
13.5 Froggy
13.3 Rod Filan
10.8 Cruze
10.7 Aquilius
8.1 Breguet
7.7 Dan-San
7.6 Flamingo
7.6 trp81
7.4 JohnMacG
7.1 Colin A. Owers
6.7 EdStevens
6.3 Patrick
6.1 joegertler
6.0 Eric Goedkoop
5.8 richard B
5.7 Ampovandak
5.6 ercoupepilot
5.5 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger
5.3 Crimso
5.3 Der Grüne Flieger
5.2 Doc
5.2 Gilles
5.2 GregE
5.1 bshatzer
5.0 Tom L
4.7 dpolglaze
4.4 Ross Moorhouse
4.3 edmondthieffry
4.0 greenknight
3.7 Berman
2.5 Gregoire
2.1 Crankcase
2.0 Rickenbaron
1.7 Kilian
1.6 sergio_vitalio
1.3 Cigogne
1.2 Ransom E. Olds
1.0 austin08
1.0 Cliff
1.0 cubsfan4life
1.0 gregorydquist
1.0 Luf-Rick
1.0 Mike Westorp
1.0 paolomiana
1.0 Peter Zambori
1.0 rammjaeger
1.0 sobrien
0.8 Machinbird
0.8 tbstreet
0.8 toxisch
0.6 Sreiko
0.5 Martin Irvine
0.4 Vilkata
0.3 albapfalzd3
0.2 Paul

Previous challenges: Aeroplanes 1914 - 1918* -* Breguet's Aircraft Challenge* --

The rules :

The thread title must be "Breguet's aircraft ID challenge #......"
The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning and end of each thread so that we know where we are.
The completed aircraft must have been either; designed, built or have left the ground during the '14-'18 period and be identifiable by the poster.
The photo must show the whole aircraft - from whatever angle, or at least 2 views of a 3 view drawing (photo by preference).
Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified
(always check the list at earlyaviator.com/br.challenge when in doubt !)
Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they become an ACE. Once they become an ACE they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of an aircraft for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the aircraft is submitted.
The final arbitor in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

Ladies & Gentleman, another show is over.
Thanks for having a look in.
Please just try it again!

Yours

Aquilius

Varese2002 · 17 June 2008, 01:37 PM

Thanks Aqui ! The book from Gilbert was first published in the English as

Quote:

Gilbert, James. 1975. The world's worst aircraft. Walton-on-Thames [Eng.]: M & J Hobbs in association with Michael Joseph.

The NASM gives in their thesaurus here as manufacturer for the Bulldogge Siemens-Schuckert, as do Bruno Lange and Gray-Thetford. The first version of the Bulldogge fitted with a radial had on its tail a painted royal (?) designation. Probably this was for Prinz Sigismund von Preussen.

When I have migrated more to my Apple machine I will show more pictures of the Bulldogge, first version.

As probably known the brilliant / enigmatic Villehad Forssman had a very little known career, ranging via Russia to Germany (Siemens and the Forssman Riesenflugzeug 10-engined triplane). Much is not known about his exploits, or at least their is not much information on him readily available.

Cheers

Kees