Jasta 52 and the Pfalz D.IIIa

[Akaalias]

I read in Greg VanWyngarden's great book "Pfalz Aces of World War 1" (Osprey Publications) that Jasta 52, under the leadership of Paul Billik did "quite well" (Page 67). On the same page Greg writes that "Billik apparently knew how to maximize the limited potential of the Pfalz D.IIIa, and no doubt taught his pilots to do the same".

I'm curious as to what tactics Billik would have taught his pilots to adopt when opposed by British single-seaters, bearing in mind that Jasta 52, for a time, was equipped solely with the Pfalz D.IIIa. How was Jasta 52 so successful? I believe that Jasta 30, which operated the Pfalz from February to July 1918, would also provide an interesting comparison.

I ask this question because it would seem that Billik would be in a position to develop tactics best suited to the Pfalz, without having to consider the characteristics of the Albatros. This, in turn, makes me wonder if jastas containing a mix of Pfalz and a majority of Albatros would be using tactics better suited to the Albatros, leaving the Pfals at a disadvantage. Since most jasta commanders elected to fly the Albatros, I would have thought that this might be the case.

I'm also wondering if there's any evidence to suggest that jastas flying only the Pfalz were more (or less) successful than those containing a mix of Pfalz and Albatros?

Just some musings before I flush.

Cheers,
A

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Akaalias:
Ltn. Paul Billik, by knowing the advantages and disadvantages of the Pfalz D.IIIa he could stress its advantages to his pilots and know its disadvantages, they then could be successful. The classic example is Jasta 11, which had a very timid Führer, and were equipped Halb.D.II aircraft, Oblt. Lang was sacked, and command was given to MvR. He turned Jasta 11, which had no victories whatsoever, into a unit of tigers with leadership and knowledge. There were in late 1917 and into the late summer of 1918, a good number of Jagdstaffeln that were equipped with the Pfalz D.III or the D.IIIa, and were well flown.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Akaalias]

Thank you Dan-San.

It would imply that, while Jasta 52 was wholly equipped with the Pfalz D.IIIa, Billik could concentrate on using it to its best advantage, instead of thinking about how to fight with an Albatros.

It appears that, on its own merits, the Pfalz D.IIIa may have been more capable than when in a mixed jasta (with Albatroses).

Is it possible to determine if Jasta 30 performed better when equipped solely with th Pfalz?

Cheers,
A

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Akaalias:
I can't say that I Jasta 52 was completely equipped with the Pfalz D.IIIa. Very few were completely equipped with one type of aircraft. Some Jasta had three different types of aircraft.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by Akaalias

I read in Greg VanWyngarden's great book "Pfalz Aces of World War 1" (Osprey Publications) that Jasta 52, under the leadership of Paul Billik did "quite well" (Page 67). On the same page Greg writes that "Billik apparently knew how to maximize the limited potential of the Pfalz D.IIIa, and no doubt taught his pilots to do the same".

I'm curious as to what tactics Billik would have taught his pilots to adopt when opposed by British single-seaters, bearing in mind that Jasta 52, for a time, was equipped solely with the Pfalz D.IIIa. How was Jasta 52 so successful? I believe that Jasta 30, which operated the Pfalz from February to July 1918, would also provide an interesting comparison.

I ask this question because it would seem that Billik would be in a position to develop tactics best suited to the Pfalz, without having to consider the characteristics of the Albatros. This, in turn, makes me wonder if jastas containing a mix of Pfalz and a majority of Albatros would be using tactics better suited to the Albatros, leaving the Pfals at a disadvantage. Since most jasta commanders elected to fly the Albatros, I would have thought that this might be the case.

I'm also wondering if there's any evidence to suggest that jastas flying only the Pfalz were more (or less) successful than those containing a mix of Pfalz and Albatros?

Just some musings before I flush.

Cheers,
A

Originally Posted by Akaalias

Thank you Dan-San.

It would imply that, while Jasta 52 was wholly equipped with the Pfalz D.IIIa, Billik could concentrate on using it to its best advantage, instead of thinking about how to fight with an Albatros.

It appears that, on its own merits, the Pfalz D.IIIa may have been more capable than when in a mixed jasta (with Albatroses).

Is it possible to determine if Jasta 30 performed better when equipped solely with th Pfalz?

Cheers,
A

Hello Akaalias,

Let us not forget that Ltn. Paul Billik, while a member of Jasta 12, not only flew an Albatros D.V, but probably an Albatros D.III as well. Which would indicate to me that he was probably proficient on more than one aircraft and familiar with the idiosyncrasies of each to take full advantage of their pros and cons. It is to his credit that he was able and willing to share this knowledge.

HAPPY TRAILS, FOKKERJ

[JG1Schorner]

I'm curious as to what tactics Billik would have taught his pilots to adopt when opposed by British single-seaters, bearing in mind that Jasta 52, for a time, was equipped solely with the Pfalz D.IIIa.

I'm guessing, but I imagine that something on the order of WWII tactics would have brought some success bearing in mind the Pfalz's characteristics. The tactics would be something on the order of gain altitiude, make a diving, slashing attack, and then either zoom and repeat or dive to disengage.

The Pfalz did not climb well, so altitude would have to be gained prior to engaging. Once used up in an attack, an altitude advantage could not be regained indefintiely. It is possible that more than one attack could be acheived if a zoom was performed after a climb - but this advantage would evaporate quickly. Once the energy advantage was gone then it was time to dive away.

That is the one on one side. In a multi plane engagement the Pfalz could perform well if team tactics were used. It was a rugged plane, well armed, and a stable firing platform. As such it could probably put more bulllets on target than its more skittish (Camel) or less well armed (SE5a) British counterparts. It was also by most accounts fairly manueverable - we're not talking Camel - but reasonable. If team tactics were used and mutual cover provided, winning becomes something more akin to dishing out more than you take rather than gaining position in single combat. That Camel may be manueverable, but he has to fly straight some time if he wants to get in a shot. That is when he is vulnerable to attack by a mate. By late 1917 single engagements were the exception, and characteristics like ruggedness and stability could count for as much as speed and manueverability.

As an alternative, you could engage British scounts only when at an advantage and otherwise limit your attacks to two seaters and balloons. Here again, the Pfalz as a stable gun platform becomes valuable.

So, did I mention that I am guessing ...

[Akaalias]

Thanks all for your responses.

It seems to me that having a "mixed" jasta imposes limits on how you organize your tactics - what works well for the Albatros, may not be the best for the Pfalz and vice-versa.

If the commander is flying an Albatros in a jasta with an Albatros majority, then I think that the Pfalz could be less effective. I guess the best commanders would take this into consideration and not organize combat that would cater solely to the strengths of the Albatros.

On the other hand, I think that a jasta containing just the one type of aircraft would have a better chance of being organized to adopt tactics best suited to that particular aeroplane.

It would have been useful to be able measure the effectiveness of mixed vs. sole type jastas.

Just more musings...............


Cheers,
A

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Akaalias:This is not counter to what I said previously, but only supplements with additional information.* Jasta 47w when formed was completely with the Pfalz D.IIIa aircraft.* I suspect that some of the others may also been equipped with the Pfalz.D.IIIa aircraft.*
Following the formation of* Jasta 52 on 27 December 1917, was equipped with the Pfalz D.IIIa. However, from the RFC Summaries of Air Intelligence (SAI) notation for Jasta 52 on 5 March 1918, reported to be equipped with Pfalz D.IIIa, on 9 March, Jasta 52 also had Albatros aircraft, type not specified. (Probably D.Va) So it appears Jasta 52 had mixed equipment for some period.By at least 1 June 1918, Jasta 52 was reported to be equipped with Pfalz D.IIIa some Fok.D.VII. Jasta 52 flew the Pfalz D.IIIa along with the Fok.D.VII to at least 24 June 1918.* The SAI notation on 2 July*and 14 August 1918, reports Jasta 52 was then equipped with only the Fok.D.VII.
Smoky skies,
Dan-San

[R Gannon]

Here is a window to Js 52's tactics May - Jun 18

Time & locs not noted - but be assured they do match.

2 May - Juhnke credited with a Camel - this was from 46 Sqn (Hickey kia)
A 46 Sqn patrol attacked 6 Pfalz and claimed one OOC at cost of Hickey.

3 May - Billik credited with Camel - again 46 Sqn (Skinner pow dow)
C Flight attacked a 2-seater which was crashed by Capt MacLaren & VM Yeates - Skinner went missing at this point. Pfalz scouts were engaged 30 min later.

3 May - Billik credited with Dolphin - 19 Sqn (Capt Chadwick pow)
A 19 Sqn patrol attacked 6-7 Pfalz resulting in indecisive scrap. At the end Chadwick's Dolphin was seen to have fabric torn away on top wing and he began to decend under control where upon he was attacked by an EA (presumably Billik).

9 May - Billik an AWFK8 - from 2 Sqn it was attacked by 4 EA and sent down in flames (teamwork?)

17 May - Schumm an SE5 - 74 Sqn Lt Nixon kia
C Flight attacked 2 Hannovers and were then bounced by unspecified number of Pfalz.

17 May - Saint-Mont an 'SE5' - actually a 19 Sqn Dolphin.
19 Sqn patrol attacked 4 Pfalz & 1 Alb Sct - Lt Hustings sent a Pfalz OOC when his engine failed, he was the set upon by 3 of the EA but was able to re-cross lines and FTL near Cassel. The Alb Sct was claimed OOC by Lt McQuistan.

19 May - Billik a Dolphin - 19 Sqn ace Maj Carter pow.
A part of a 13 strong patrol attacked two 2-seaters and were in turn bounced by 9 Albatros & Pfalz. Carter's Dolphin was seen to go down under control with dead engine after attacking a 2-seater and was attacked by 2 of the EA - these driven off by other pilots but Carter's Dolphin seen FTL in German lines - 19 Sqn pilots claimed 3 Pfalz OOC.

23 May - Billik & Sowa both credited with SE5's in fight with 64 Sqn but only one loss - Lt Southall kia - an Alb Sct claimed crashed in return.

1 Jun - Billik an SE5 - 74 Sqn Capt Cairns kia.
A & C Flights of 74 Sqn attacked 7 Pfalz (dark with white tails) - Mannock sent down 3 of the Pfalz - one a flamer was flown by Ltn Saint Mont kia - as IRA Jones noted a determined Pfalz sent down Cairns.

Billik was lightly wounded in the evening and Js 52 looks to have been bounced by 85 Sqn who claimed 4 Pfalz

5 Jun - Juhnke an SE5 - 1 Sqn Lt Hennessy kia
A 2 man line patrol had gone out to chase off 2-seaters when they were bounced by unspecified number of EA.

5 Jun - Juhnke & Reimann both BF's - 20 Sqn
The rear machines of a bombing mission each BF carrying 112Lb bomb. One of the BF's was driven down by 4 EA (teamwork!) Reimann was kia in this action.

24 Jun - Billik a BF - 62 Sqn D8082
Four of 62 Sqn attacked 4 Pfalz and were in turn bounced by 5 more!

25 Jun - Billik an SE5 - 1 Sqn Bradley USAS kia
A 9 strong 1 Sqn patrol had attempted to climb and engage 12 EA. These withdrew east and then shadowed the patrol back to lines. Bradley was not seen again.

The EA in the last example were actually Fokker DVII's - which are noted in all Brit accounts of fights with Js 52 from this point on. The point is however, that the tactics do not change. The British pilots called these 'Hunnish tactics' - an unwillingness of Jasta formations to engage British fighters on anything approaching even terms. VM Yeates in his 'Winged Victory' used the more charitable 'Scientific Fighting'. This actually begins to be evident from the Autumn of 1917 onwards and includes Albatros and Triplane units. Only with the advent of the BMW powered DVII's, do the Jagdstafflen show a renewed aggression in their tactics.

Cheers Russ

[Pips]

Originally Posted by RussGannon

This actually begins to be evident from the Autumn of 1917 onwards and includes Albatros and Triplane units. Only with the advent of the BMW powered DVII's, do the Jagdstafflen show a renewed aggression in their tactics.
Cheers Russ

And with good reason! The Fokker D.VII evened things up with Allied fighters.

By Autumn '17 both the Albatross and Pfalz fighters were obsolescent and outclassed by the Camel, Se.5, Spad XIII, Bristol and Dolphin fighters used by the Allies. Only the Dr.1 could fight on even terms. In many ways it's a wonder that the Germans did so well with such aeroplanes until the advent of the D.VII.


Excellent post btw Russ. May I ask where you found such interesting info?