Breguet's Aircraft ID Challenge # 436

[Varese2002]

Breguet's Aircraft ID Challenge # 436

A mini challenge plane, difficult and the most difficult view possible of course. Have a shot at this one. As much information as possible would be appreciated.

Cheers

Kees





The scoreboard at the start of challenge #436 is:

84.2 Varese2002 ¤
57.9 Dave_Kent ¤
43.8 Rbailey ¤
15.5 YavorD
13.65 Cruze
13.5 Froggy
13.3 Rod Filan
12.3 Aquilius
8.1 Breguet
7.7 Dan-San
7.6 Flamingo
7.6 trp81
7.4 JohnMacG
7.1 Colin A. Owers
6.7 EdStevens
6.3 Patrick
6.1 joegertler
6.0 Eric Goedkoop
5.8 richard B
5.7 Ampovandak
5.6 ercoupepilot
5.5 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger
5.45 GregE
5.3 Crimso
5.3 Der Grüne Flieger
5.2 Doc
5.2 Gilles
5.1 bshatzer
5.0 Tom L
4.7 dpolglaze
4.4 Ross Moorhouse
4.3 edmondthieffry
4.0 greenknight
3.7 Berman
2.5 Gregoire
2.1 Crankcase
2.0 Rickenbaron
1.7 Kilian
1.6 sergio_vitalio
1.3 Cigogne
1.2 Ransom E. Olds
1.0 austin08
1.0 Cliff
1.0 cubsfan4life
1.0 gregorydquist
1.0 Luf-Rick
1.0 Mike Westorp
1.0 paolomiana
1.0 Peter Zambori
1.0 rammjaeger
1.0 sobrien
0.8 Machinbird
0.8 tbstreet
0.8 toxisch
0.6 Sreiko
0.5 Martin Irvine
0.4 Vilkata
0.3 Nieuport14
0.3 albapfalzd3
0.2 Paul

Previous challenges: Aeroplanes 1914 - 1918* -http://www.earlyaviator.com/br.challenge/

The rules :

The thread title must be "Breguet's aircraft ID challenge #......"
The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning and end of each thread so that we know where we are.
The completed aircraft must have been either; designed, built or have left the ground during the '14-'18 period and be identifiable by the poster.
The photo must show the whole aircraft - from whatever angle, or at least 2 views of a 3 view drawing (photo by preference).
Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified
(always check the list at earlyaviator.com/br.challenge when in doubt !)
Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they become an ACE. Once they become an ACE they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of an aircraft for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the aircraft is submitted.
The final arbitor in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

[Varese2002]

Sure, it can be done

Cheers

Kees

[Rbailey]

I have seen a very small and fuzzy picture of a rotary powered biplane with a half-cowling and otherwise similar configuration, purported to be a single-seat Halberstadt scout from 1915. It doesn't match any Halbertadt picture I have seen and may be a spurious identification, but I will toss that out as a starting guess.

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Rbailey

I have seen a very small and fuzzy picture of a rotary powered biplane with a half-cowling and otherwise similar configuration, purported to be a single-seat Halberstadt scout from 1915. It doesn't match any Halbertadt picture I have seen and may be a spurious identification, but I will toss that out as a starting guess.

No Halberstadt, by the way the machine is from 1914, quite advanced for that time. Perhaps you can show that fuzzy picture of the ' purported Halberstadt'

Cheers

Kees

[Rbailey]

Kees - this is the picture referred to. It comes from a bad Xerox copy of a French original, which refers to two 1915 Halberstdts; one is called a "monoplace de chasse", and two pictures were given implying one of each. The first is almost certainly the CI. On looking at the article more carefully, I think this is also the CI.

As for the challenge, the gentlemen present look English, but anything I found of the right general configuration differs in detail. How about American?

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Rbailey

Kees - this is the picture referred to. It comes from a bad Xerox copy of a French original, which refers to two 1915 Halberstdts; one is called a "monoplace de chasse", and two pictures were given implying one of each. The first is almost certainly the CI. On looking at the article more carefully, I think this is also the CI.

As for the challenge, the gentlemen present look English, but anything I found of the right general configuration differs in detail. How about American?

Hi RBailey. I see what you mean, a very bad picture where the essential bays between the wings and the rudder are not to be seen (at least no by me ).
I would not take the contemporary French press of 1915 for their word hat this is a Halberstadt. If it is, that makes it a B.I , which was the only model with a rotary engine.

I cannot state positively that the people standing before the wing are English. The origin of the machine is decidedly ....... French [Vive la France! ]. No Americans around this one. Remember that this smallish plane has only one bay

Cheers

Kees

[Froggy]

Bonsoir

Kees thanks to your indication (french aircraft) I think that it is a Ponnier L.1
(only one built) 1 example had been assigned to the CRP just at beginning of war-Ponnier was well known for his Racer plane before war-But he had no success with his planes during ww1

Cordialement
Bruno

[Froggy]

Sorry I forget to join the photo



Engine 80 Hp Gnome
Span 10.55 M !!
length 5.30 m
No armemement


Bruno

[Varese2002]

Bruno, that is right on the mark. You have the honour to present Challenge # 437.

The Ponnier L1 Type Cavalerie was a very small single seater with a 50 hp Gnôme. It was probably intended to fit a 80 hp Gnôme but if it ever was fitted is doubtful.

Empty weight was an unbelievable 260 kg. The span is given even smaller in Opdycke (8 meter for the top wing and 7,2 meter for yhe lower wing).

I refrained from the side view for obvious reasons.

If there are mdel builders who will have a shot at this plane, there is a 3-view drawing in Flight 1914.

Cordialement

Kees


The scoreboard at the end of challenge #436 is:

84.2 Varese2002 ¤
57.9 Dave_Kent ¤
43.8 Rbailey ¤
15.5 YavorD
14.5 Froggy
13.65 Cruze
13.3 Rod Filan
12.3 Aquilius
8.1 Breguet
7.7 Dan-San
7.6 Flamingo
7.6 trp81
7.4 JohnMacG
7.1 Colin A. Owers
6.7 EdStevens
6.3 Patrick
6.1 joegertler
6.0 Eric Goedkoop
5.8 richard B
5.7 Ampovandak
5.6 ercoupepilot
5.5 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger
5.45 GregE
5.3 Crimso
5.3 Der Grüne Flieger
5.2 Doc
5.2 Gilles
5.1 bshatzer
5.0 Tom L
4.7 dpolglaze
4.4 Ross Moorhouse
4.3 edmondthieffry
4.0 greenknight
3.7 Berman
2.5 Gregoire
2.1 Crankcase
2.0 Rickenbaron
1.7 Kilian
1.6 sergio_vitalio
1.3 Cigogne
1.2 Ransom E. Olds
1.0 austin08
1.0 Cliff
1.0 cubsfan4life
1.0 gregorydquist
1.0 Luf-Rick
1.0 Mike Westorp
1.0 paolomiana
1.0 Peter Zambori
1.0 rammjaeger
1.0 sobrien
0.8 Machinbird
0.8 tbstreet
0.8 toxisch
0.6 Sreiko
0.5 Martin Irvine
0.4 Vilkata
0.3 Nieuport14
0.3 albapfalzd3
0.2 Paul

Previous challenges: Aeroplanes 1914 - 1918* -http://www.earlyaviator.com/br.challenge/

The rules :

The thread title must be "Breguet's aircraft ID challenge #......"
The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning and end of each thread so that we know where we are.
The completed aircraft must have been either; designed, built or have left the ground during the '14-'18 period and be identifiable by the poster.
The photo must show the whole aircraft - from whatever angle, or at least 2 views of a 3 view drawing (photo by preference).
Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified
(always check the list at earlyaviator.com/br.challenge when in doubt !)
Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they become an ACE. Once they become an ACE they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of an aircraft for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the aircraft is submitted.
The final arbitor in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

[Rbailey]

Originally Posted by Varese2002

Hi RBailey. I see what you mean, a very bad picture where the essential bays between the wings and the rudder are not to be seen (at least no by me ).
I would not take the contemporary French press of 1915 for their word hat this is a Halberstadt. If it is, that makes it a B.I , which was the only model with a rotary engine.


Cheers

Kees

Kees - I have only Gray and Thetford to go on, but they show a picture of a rotary engined model designated CI that differs from the B's by a different rudder and was supposedly developed from the BII. The rudder in the other picture from the French source matches the rudder on the G&T picture of the CI.