Breguet's Crash File Challenge #287

[AROTH]

Possibilities......although, the undercarriages on the F2 and F3 versions look similar to the Bleroit type suspension system, the F4 looks closer to that in the crash photo.

I am still wondering about the wing bracing system on all three, as they show mid -wing strut supports and bracing and what appears to be tapered wings that do not show on the crash photo.

Oh, my poor brain..........I love this site!

[YavorD]

May be this can help a bit?
Regards,
Yavor

[AROTH]

Sure, if the name of the aircraft was also on the picture.......haha.

Just joking.

This helps some, I will look some more.

Thanks.

[Rbailey]

Is it a De Brageas monoplane? Eight went to Russia; Neiuport style undercarriage, Darracq engines on some at least.

[Rbailey]

Here is the De Brageas in a different pose.

[AROTH]

RBailey, looks like you got it - same serial number on the fuselage.

Thank you for finally stepping in - my head was hurting!

You were holding back on purpose, right?

[YavorD]

Sorry for the delay, I was out of order for a while

Yes, Rbailey's picture shows the same aeroplane "95-4." possibly after the same, or very similar accident. On the second picture, the aeroplane is almost ready to be manhandled back to its normal position.
The second picture (or very similar one) was published on page 72 of French Aeroplanes Before the Great War by Leonard E. Opdycke (credited to Harry Woodman).
The first picture was found somewhere on the internet, miscaptioned Nieuport. Another low-resolution picture is available from french source, which shows (probably) the same aeroplane captioned as "de Brageas type E".
Three-view drawings are from Arizona Model Aircrafters website, L'Aerophile publication of June 1913 (de Brageas monoplane title removed by me).
Without too many comments, V. B. Shavrov mentions use of this aeroplane between 1913 and 1919!

Conclusion. Rbailey got it right, it is de Brageas monoplane trainer.

The scoreboard at the end of Crash File Challenge No. 287.

34.3 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger
27.3 Rbailey
27.0 Froggy
19.60 Breguet
17.15 YavorD
12.3 Flamingo
09.75 Aquilius
08.3 Varese2002
08.0 ONEALM
07.6 Rod_Filan
07.9 Gregvan
06.2 Richard B
06.15 AROTH
05.75 Ross
05.7 Jeroplan
05.5 Expositor
05.5 Gilles
05.0 Dan_San
05.0 Kilian
04.0 Edmond
04.0 Eric
04.0 Laserlloyd
03.5 sergio_vitalio
03.3 PaulForster
03.2 Colin A Owers
03.2 Crankcase
03.0 Crimso
03.0 Patrick
02.7 Tbstreet
02.0 Cruze
02.0 Rickenbaron
01.8 gregorydquist
01.8 Tom L
01.5 Nieuport 14
01.25 Ransom E. Olds
01.0 '14-'18aviationcollector
01.0 Ampovandak
01.0 Berman
01.0 brisfitworks
01.0 Cliff
01.0 Pvernon
01.0 rammjaeger
01.0 RONNY BAR
01.0 Troy Raines
00.5 Miroslav Pokorny
00.1 SCMc

[Varese2002]

About this absolute rarity - thanks Yavor - there is a little story (in Russian) here. The story makes it clear that the De Brageas (Дебражас) monoplane was used for initial training, probably what the French name a rouleur. Our unfortunate De Brageas 95-4 was probably such a rouleur.

This is a piece translated from the Russian (freely )

It gave instruction on the De Brageas and [Morane-Saulnier] 'Parasol'. These were French aircraft: the first was for training, the second for combat. The De Brageas was a "venomous" aircraft. It was necessary to taxi straight along the line and make "approaches", that is coming loose from the ground not higher than one meter and landing again after turning off the engine. One had to refrain from making turns. The machine had a weak engine, an Anzani of 45 hp.

Once, very early in the morning, in heavy fog we practised approaches in this insidious De Brageas. When he came out of the machine, one of the students tripped the throttle control. The engine revved up and the pilot quickly jumped off the machine. The De Brageas began to move quickly in the fog, without anyone on the steering wheel. We did not know what to do. In the fog it was possible to fall under the propeller. For one of us it was possible to the wing tip and to hang on, braking the machine. Now the De Brageas began to taxi in a small circle. Another student finally entered the machine, stopping the engine. When the students had finished taxiing on the De Brageas they were passed to the M-S Parasol.

Probably Shavrov is right in stating that the machine was used till 1919, as a rouleur

Cheers

Kees

[Varese2002]

Looking in Shavrov I got this information about the De Brageas -

“Дебражас” ( “Де-Вражас” ) — одноместный учебно-рулежный самолет, применявшийся в летных школах в 1913—1919 гг. в небольшом числе экземпляров. По схеме, размерам и контурам мало отличался от “Моран-Ж”, но шасси было фармановского типа; обычно применявшиеся на нем двигатели — “Даррак” в 24 л. с., “Анзани” в 35 л. с. или 45 л. с. Лопасти винта были урезаны. Летать такой самолет не мог, удавались только прыжки, но в процессе руления и разбегов ученик приучался вести машину по прямой, что отвечало тогдашней методике летного обучения.

Translated it gives

The De Brageas - single-seat training-taxiing aircraft, was used in small numbers in the flight schools from 1913 till 1919. in size and in outline it differed little from the Morane-Saulnier G [Моран-Ж], but the fuselage was of the Farman type [? probably it was meant as open ?]. As engines were used the Darracq of 24 hp and the Anzani of 35 - 45 hp. Propeller blades were reduced (!), so the machine could not fly, making only leaps. The student was trained in taxiing and takeoffs (hops) on the straight line, as was customary in those days.

Cheers

Kees