Madon's Spad XIII markings

pseudotheist · 3 September 2008, 07:34 AM

The last month or so, I've been "researching" WWI aircraft paint schemes, and I've found this site to be one of the most informative I've come across, so I thought I'd log in to see if some of you would be gracious enough to lend a hand filling in a few holes on a particular plane I came across.

That plane (or planes) of course, is Madon's SPAD XIII (I imagine it is finished very similar to the SPAD XII, but don't want to assume). I found the picture on page 31 of SPAD XII/XIII Aces of World War 1, which prominently displays a thick vertical white stripe on the tail. Is this one of those oddities of film at the time, that it didn't pick up the standard blue stripe, or is it more likely that there was actually no blue stripe on this particular plane?

Was the red paint used likely to be the same "primary red" shade used in the roundels and tail markings, or is there reason to believe it would be a different shade?

Is the factory clear dope of the wings the same slightly pinkish shade that Guynemer's aircraft are finished in, or is there a better example for accurate shading?

As for markings, are there any known markings on this aircraft besides the white cowling and standard roundels above the top wing and below the bottom? I don't actually have a copy of the previously mentioned book. but there's a reference on page 91 to a thistle emblem; does that appear anywhere on this plane (is there sufficient useful info on page 91 that I should pick up a copy of this book)?

Lastly, does anyone know if there are any decent 3-view drawings or whatnot that are available anywhere of this plane? I notice Pearson has the XII listed, but not a XIII. Does Dan San even do French and British planes? I notice all the ones in his gallery are German, but assume he must have many more.

Thanks for any help y'all care to give.

Dan_San_Abbott · 4 September 2008, 11:21 AM

Pseudotheist:
Yes, I do, research and drawings on Aviation Militaire and RFC/RAF aircraft. However, that is not my main research trust. I just don't do them regularily or as often. When I started out researching marking, it was of RFC/RAF aircraft. In 1972, I started specializing in German aircraft history and markings. I have been interested in French camouflage for a very long time. With a little bit of time I could come up with Madon's SPAD XIIIc1 markings.
The drawings in the Gallery are there to whet your appetite for DVD Volume 1 of the Dan-San Abbott Collection, which will cover From Fl.Abt.62 to Jasta 4 with about 105 drawings most in color and some in black and white three views of my original drawings. My target date is 1 November 2008. And Volume 2 will follow in Spring of 2009 with Jasta 5 to Jasta 11. Volume 3 will follow about four or five months later with Jasta 12 to Jasta 18. Each Volume will have about 100 plus drawings. In this period will be a Special Volume on Albatros Camouflage schemes which will include Alb. B.I through C.XV, D.I to D.Va, J.I and J.II. These will include all the license built variants.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Shredward · 4 September 2008, 07:29 PM

Hurry up November!
Dan, how do we order?
All the best,
shredward

StephenLawson · 4 September 2008, 09:14 PM

Put me down for two of each. One for me & one for the Foundation. Now I am going to have to have a computer at my research & modeling desk. Signs of the times. Its great!

Olson · 5 September 2008, 05:36 AM

Waiting with checkbook at hand and pen at the ready. If you're compiling a pre-order list I'd like to be included.........John Olson

Dan_San_Abbott · 5 September 2008, 11:16 AM

Gentlemen:
I have a ways to go yet. what I have finished is 10 colored three views pre Jasta. 4 Jage Nr.1 and Nr.2, 14 Jasta 1, with 3 to do, new data, 21 Jasta 2 with 21 to do. Jasta 3, 1, 4 to do, Jasta 4, 11 done and 4 to do. So there are 29 to do, so at least 58 days or more. 1 November might be a little optomistic, but that is the target. The Fok.Dr.I streaked camouflage is slow and the are several fok D.VII with printed fabric. Any how it will be done. I have devoted all my available time. I will be redoing Du doch nicht!!. In addition to these colored 3 views will be a number of black and white three views. When I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, I'll let you know.
I'll keep you posted on my progress.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

RobW · 5 September 2008, 12:48 PM

Dan,
If you'd like me to post a teaser of your upcoming product at my fly-in next week, I'd be more than happy to.

It could be just as simple as I take a few of your posted 3 views, print them, and put a notice that your DVD will be released in DEC, and add contact info. At the very least it would help get the word out on what is coming down the pike...

Let me know if you are interested.

Rob W

SCMc · 5 September 2008, 06:32 PM

pseudotheist,

Albin Denis has a website that is a great resource for some of the French units. His page for Esc 38 has his renditions for two versions of the thistle insignia. It also has a couple of good photos of the early verison. There is also one phot of the later version, but the black thistle does not show well against the red background in orthochromatic film. It would be nice to see a better photo of this, since I am not sure about his rendition of this one.

Quote:

I found the picture on page 31 of

SPAD XII/XIII Aces of World War 1, which prominently displays a thick vertical white stripe on the tail. Is this one of those oddities of film at the time, that it didn't pick up the standard blue stripe, or is it more likely that there was actually no blue stripe on this particular plane?

The rudder is probably tricolor. Orthochromatic film is very sensitive to blue, making them appear much lighter than we see them.

Steve

Frederic Mason · 6 September 2008, 01:22 PM

Dan-San; I too, am interested in purchasing your DVD sets and would like any info on prices and where to send same??? Please put me on the list: e.g. armorkid @ wowway.com. Will you call them a title like: Camouflage and Markings of ,etc,etc??? A good plan/scheme for this topic has been lacking many years. Best of success in all your endeavors. Can't wait to obtain a set. Happy Landings; Garry F.

pseudotheist · 8 September 2008, 10:01 AM

So, that thistle emblem is black with white or red text... So it's entirely plausible that that emblem's sitting right there on the side of that plane, but completely invisible to the camera because of the color pallet? I begin to wonder how anything gets accurately re-created.

It's academic for my purposes, since I don't think I could reproduce the emblem in 1/1 scale, much less 1/144, but I would be fascinated to hear if anyone's come across a primary source reference indicating the presence or absence of decoration on the fuselage of Madon's SPAD XII or XIIIs, or if the
profiles are just based on the available photographs.