Breguet's ID aircraft challenge # 481

[Varese2002]

Although no solution to the challenge, I noticed another influence than Aviatik, being the Lohner B-1 Pfeil Biplane of which Spain had bought 4 examples before the start war.

Struggling on to find this really obscure rarity

Cheers

Kees

[Varese2002]

Looking in Jane 1919 for the Spanish section I see that the following quite well known manufacturers are quoted (although the listing is slightly guarded by 'the chief manufacturers of aircraft').

• Garde y Escoriaza at Zaragoza

• Pujol y Comabella at Barcelone

• Compañia (Sociedad) Española de Construcciones Aeronáuticas
  at Santander

Original designs were made and built by the Aeronautica Militar Espanola.

Well, in all probability the Challenge machine belongs to one of these (excluding of course CECA).

Cheers

Kees

[Aquilius]

Originally Posted by richard B

Quote :
""1917. During the war aircrafts were designed by engineers like Captain Eduardo Barrón.""

I see a " s " at the end of engineerS .It's NOt a Barr'on, sorry

(I know 2 more planes from the very same stable, so more than one source must exist )

So I´m staying with "Other Spanish Hispano-Suiza aircraft of 1917" (wich is not much more than we had known before) and only can ask for some small crumbs of the cake .

Aquilius

[cruze]

Félicitations pour la trouvaille !

Originally Posted by richard B

"1917. During the war aircraftS were designed by engineers...""
I see a " s " at the end of engineerS

I have two suggestions but I guess I must try with a first one...

Is it the "Alfaro 4" designed by Heraclio ALFARO when he was at the Escuela Nacional de Aeronáutica (ENA).
It's a biplane "tipo militar" powered by a 140hp hispano Suiza.
I never saw a picture of it, so....

Laurent

[Aquilius]

Just something different:

Eduardo & José Pujol Xicoy and Felipe Comabella founded a company in 1912:Pujol, Comabella y Cía.

[...]After an attemt with the Kondor Taube they obtained the licence of the Vendôme monolpanes for military aviation. In 1915 Salvador Hedilla joined the company. When he crashed to death in the Pujol Monocoque No.5 he was replaced by Jorge Loring. In 1919 the company merged with Talleres Hereter. This factory also was dedicated to manufacture cars, although in 1917 already they had constructed a biplane under the direction of Loring.[...]

How about this Loring designed biplane for the Hereter Factory?

The Hereter Biplano de Reconocimiento???
(Hereter Reconnaissance Biplane)

edit: I just looked up: Hedilla died in a crash around the Barcelona airport in Oktober 1917, so Loring could have had enough time to design a biplane for anonther company than Pujol y Combella in Barcelona.


Cheers

Aquilius

[richard B]

BREGUET SAID :

To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification .

What I can say ,Cruze is the nearest to the clue ,and owes a large part of the mark,
but it's not the ID I have (in my less or most reliable source )
Hope now the exact ID in respect of Breguet's Law

Maintenant, Cruze ,je vais tondre ma pelouse car elle a bien séché (Qui a dit que l'automne était pluvieux par chez nous ? Un parisien surement

[Rbailey]

"T.H., Hereter
Biplane fighter, first flown in Spain in 1919. The T.H. was too
late to enter the fighter competition of the Spanish air force.
The prototype was damaged on its first flight, and the type was
abandoned. 180hp Hispano-Suiza 8Ab engine. "

Also known as Alfaro 8. Not this challenge, I think. But this seems to be one of those challenges where Breguet's 6th rule is difficult to apply unless we accept that the Hispano engine is an adequate characteristic.

[richard B]

It's not the Alfaro 8 ,sorry

I agree ,the rule is difficult to apply ,unless one of you find a pic ,so and good luck !

[Froggy]

Bonjour tout le monde

Jane's fighting aircraft evoke a Military biplane called 'the Espana'
but without illustration..This plane seems to have been motorized by a 180 hp Hispano Suiza

here ectract of a flight article:

"The Barcelona Race
THE race which was to have been held at Barcelona on
October 5 actually took place on the 12th. There were seven
entries, including an Ansaldo (250 h.p. Spa) ; an Espagna
(180 h.p. Hispano) ; an Alfaro (180 h.p. Hispano) ; a Vendome
(60 h.p. Rhone) ; a Caudron ty^e (80 h.p. Rhone) ; and two
Morane-Saulnier parasols (80 h.p. Rhones). The two last
mentioned were piloted by Fronval and Bourgeois respectively,
and they were the only competitors to finish the course of 100
kiloms., which they did in the order stated. Two days later
the two Frenchmen flew over to Madrid, where they were
presented to the military aviation authorities."

Cordialement
Bruno

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Froggy

---

Jane's fighting aircraft evoke a Military biplane called 'the Espana'
but without illustration..This plane seems to have been motorized by a 180 hp Hispano Suiza

---
Cordialement
Bruno

Jane's all the world's aircraft 1919 mentions the Espana as follows (p.419a)

A new fighting machine, called the "Espana" has been evolved. It is not yet permissable to illustrate it.

That's all that is mentioned. Surely this is no candidate for the Challenge machine as it was probably a single seat fighter and developed end 1918 / beginning 1919. No mention of a Hispano-Suiza either.

The search goes on, but most options are drying up

Cheers

Kees