Wow,I didn't know that Z.Staakens had this!

Kacey · 16 February 2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Varese2002

Identifying the different types of Zeppelin-Staaken Riesenflugzeuge (Giant Aircraft) can best be done be the positioning of the propellers and the engines. When you look at the the picture there is one tractor propeller (2-blade) in front of the fuselage. The other propellers cannot be seen but they are in the nacelles as pusher propellers (4-blade). The engine configuration is here one (1) in the front of the fuselage and 2 in tandem in the nacelles, making a total of 5 engines (Benz Bz.IV of 220 hp each, making a total of 1100 hp !).

So all things considering we are looking at the Zeppelin-Staaken R.IV 12/15.

The Zeppelin-Staaken R.XV was a far later model, also 5-engined but in a different configuration (1 tractor propeller in the front of the fuselage, 2 tractor propeller in the front of the nacelle and 2 pusher propellers at the back of the nacelles).

Do realize that in those times there was no sound damping or isolation, so the noise for the mechanics was literally deafening. In other pictures of the crew of Zeppelin-Staaken R.IV you can see a mechanics standing (or hanging) below the engine nacelle) with the machine flying at a few huindred meters high. Those were the fearless days

No bracing can be seen though.

Cheers

Kees

Kees,

I believe if you look at the picture above and the datafile cover supplied, you will see the Zeppelin-Staaken R.IV had 3(three) aeroengines.

One tractor in the front of fuselage and one each pusher in the nacelles.

That's why you can see the two men directly behind the fuselage engine, with pilots and guackers behind them and the portside nacelle mechanic standing in the front of the portside nacelle.

Picture taken by the starboard side mechanic.

At least that's what I'm seeing.

Respectfully,

KC

I've looked further! The R.IV may have had five or six engines, but only THREE propellers.

Which fits the photo and cover picture. Very interesting, I'm looking into this further.

KC

Miroslav Pokorny · 16 February 2009, 02:58 PM

The picture seems relate to an excellent photo-serial published at JET&PROP magazine 3/98, July/August 18998, with a doubtful capture "Staaken R.IV (R.12/15?)". Sadly, don't have a scanner at hand right now. Cheers MP

Miroslav Pokorny · 16 February 2009, 03:22 PM

Apology for terrible quality of pics. Note a man climbing down the ladder on pic (above R.12/15 fuselage picture). Cheers MP

gregorydquist · 16 February 2009, 05:24 PM

The initial photo in this post appears in "German Bombers of World War 1 in Action", by Peter Cooksley, Aircraft Number 173, Squadron Signal Publications , 2000, on page 43.

The caption reads: " The first of the Staaken giants to be officially described under the 'R' designation was the Zeppelin (Staaken) R.IV. The R.IV was similar to the V.G.O. III, but had more powerful 220 HP Benz Bz IV engines in the nacelles. Two crew members were seated in the nose behind the twin engines, while a further pair of crewmen are further aft manning the flight controls. Out on the wing the gunner conducts his lonely vigil in the port nacelle. The retouched photograph is presumably taken from the starboard gunner's position."

On the book's previous page we learn that the V.G.O. types I and II had three engines and three props while the III doubled the engines in each location (3x2 = 6 engines) to increase power while still driving 3 props. The author states " The V.G.O. was succeeded by the R. IV....The R.IV retained the six engine configuration of it's immediate successor. "

So the R.IV had 6 engines and 3 props (1 tractor 2 bladed prop in the nose of the fuselage driven by two @160(?) HP Mercedes inlines and 2 pusher 4 bladed props, one in each nacelle driven by two each 200 HP Benz Bz IV engines. The front of the nacelles contained the gun positions. Other types had three engines and three props, three props and 5 engines, 4 engines and 4 props)

Based on other photos and information in the article, the two gentleman to the left in the photo should be pilot and copilot in their normal positions. The two flight crew members must have been able to move about the aircraft to perform maintenance and serve as fuselage gunners. And somebody had to be the bombardier.
I imagine the gunners doubled as mechanics for the nacelle engines.

Regards,
Grego

Ransom E. Olds · 17 February 2009, 10:23 AM

Actually it might better be said the mechanics doubled as gunners, as I believe in-flight access for servicing and repair was part of the design requirements for the giants. Any old airplane buff with gearhead tendencies owes it to himself to check out Grosz and Haddow's wonderful book. Ransom

Catfish · 17 February 2009, 11:08 AM

Hello,
in some of the german Zeppelin Staaken R-bombers an uncoupled surplus engine was used only to compress air for the engines connected to the propellors, to reach higher altitudes, used solely as a charger. Some of the later Zeppelin Mb engines initially produced for the airships at altitudes of up to 24.000 feet were also used in bombers, and some high altitude reconnaissance planes.
Greetings,
Catfish

Aquilius · 17 February 2009, 04:38 PM

Don't know if the gondola crew was something unique to the Zeppelin-Staaken giants, but I think all or at least most of the long-range aircraft had in-flight accessible engines, then by ladders or wing-ways.

And the job to sit between two engines of the later R.VI for 6 to 8 hours must have been horrible for sure.

Just the use of "surplus" engines occurred only to one of them.
Zeppelin-Staaken R.VI 30/16 had an extra 120 hp Mercedes D.II engine inside the cabin that powered a "turbo charger" that could load up the main drive through a fan. With this the speed could be increased from 130 to 160 km/h and it reached a high of 5800 m compared to 3800 m of the Mercedes-engined Series machines.
R.VI 30/16 (completed in March 1918) was used as a test-bed only, eventually fittet with in-flight adjustable props as well. It survived the war in Staaken (or maybe Johannisthal) and had to be wrecked in 1919...

Cheers

Aquilius

Catfish · 18 February 2009, 02:01 PM

Hello,
not a Zeppelin, but a Siemens-Schuckert - must have been one noisy workplace .. at each side of the fuselage there are three Basse&Selve engines, driving four propellors.
Greetings,
Catfish

gregorydquist · 18 February 2009, 04:16 PM

I read that the helmets used by the crews on high altitude flights were supplied by liquid oxygen for breathing and were "soundproof" I SAID SOOOUNNND PROOOF!"

and wouldn't the extra engine supplying compressed air to improve the air:fuel ratio more properly speaking be a supercharger rather than a turbocharger ?

Catfish · 19 February 2009, 01:17 AM

Hello GregoryDQuist,

" ...read that the helmets used by the crews on high altitude flights were supplied by liquid oxygen for breathing and were "soundproof" I SAID SOOOUNNND PROOOF!" ..."

Yes, ok, I heard you, what exactly did you say ?

" ... and wouldn't the extra engine supplying compressed air to improve the air:fuel ratio more properly speaking be a supercharger rather than a turbocharger ? ..."

Yes, no exhaust-driven air charger, but a mechanical one like a supercharger, or compressor.

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish