Reloading Guns

Nacho · 20 February 2009, 09:39 PM

Were pilots able to reload their Spandaus or Vickers guns while in flight? I know that these guns were belt fed and differed from the Lewis gun where you just had to twist the drum on. I've seen pictures of the guns and I wonder just how they reloaded if it was possible.

Maxim08 · 21 February 2009, 05:40 AM

Nacho,
I am not aware of any fixed guns being reloadable by the pilot in the air.
Observer guns were quite different. The standard allied gun was the Lewis with changable magazines and the standard German gun was the Parabellum which had belts on changeale spool magazines. I know that the ground version of the MG 08/15 had a provision for detachable drum magazines, but I don't believe that they were used in the air.
Regards,
John

Lodzermensch · 21 February 2009, 06:41 AM

Hello,

It was not possible in a fighter aircraft. On the other hand it was not necessary. The utility weight of such aircraft was limited. This means, that it was not possible to load unlimited amounts of ammunition to the aircraft. I believe that capacity of munitions boxes, where the ammo belts were stored, was sufficient to take maximum load of ammo.

Greetings

Marek

Tailspin · 21 February 2009, 06:51 AM

As Marek said, it's not necessary. It would also be difficult to do with one hand, while flying the airplane with the other hand and your feet, in a 100 mile an hour (or more) wind with the ever present possibility of an enemy pilot sneaking up behind you. It was hard enough trying to replace the drum of a Lewis gun under those conditions.

Tom

TonyWilliams · 4 March 2009, 12:59 AM

The belt-fed fixed guns were given a big magazine capacity (normally at least 250 rpg, sometimes a lot more) so didn't need to be reloaded. The top-wing mounted fixed Lewis guns (which initially used 47-round mags, later 97 rounds) were a real pain to reload until the Foster mounting allowed the pilot to pull the gun downwards first. Even then it wasn't easy, due to wind resistance acting on the drum.

54thAIB · 8 April 2009, 07:40 PM

Hi- I'm brand new to the forum but its been a wealth of info. I'm currently building a 1/28 SPAD and here's where I could use some help. How were the Vickers MGs cocked by the pilot? My model has the cocking levers pointing up and to the rear towards the pilot. I've never sat in a SPAD cockpit but I guess it possible for the pilot to reach up past the windscreen and pull the right lever back to cock it -- but the left gun's lever would have the pilot reach over the windscreen to reach the lever. Now I have seen beautiful pics of a vickers aerial MG with the levers pointing up on the Vintage Aircraft website--but in this forum I started to see pics of scale models of Vickers guns with the levers pointing down and to the rear. So the cocking levers would be down into the cockpit. This makes more sense for the pilot to grab the levers and even to smack them with his mallet if a gun jammed. The Memorial Flight website has been a gem of source for many things but this is one aspect that isn't very clear. That SPAD looks like the levers are pointing down but its not clear. I would welcome any opinions. And one final thing. How were these guns actually fired? Teh SPAD had triggers and cables but what were they connedted to? Sorry for the long msg. Regards

Tim West · 9 April 2009, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54thAIB

Hi- I'm brand new to the forum but its been a wealth of info. I'm currently building a 1/28 SPAD and here's where I could use some help. How were the Vickers MGs cocked by the pilot? My model has the cocking levers pointing up and to the rear towards the pilot. I've never sat in a SPAD cockpit but I guess it possible for the pilot to reach up past the windscreen and pull the right lever back to cock it -- but the left gun's lever would have the pilot reach over the windscreen to reach the lever. Now I have seen beautiful pics of a vickers aerial MG with the levers pointing up on the Vintage Aircraft website--but in this forum I started to see pics of scale models of Vickers guns with the levers pointing down and to the rear. So the cocking levers would be down into the cockpit. This makes more sense for the pilot to grab the levers and even to smack them with his mallet if a gun jammed. The Memorial Flight website has been a gem of source for many things but this is one aspect that isn't very clear. That SPAD looks like the levers are pointing down but its not clear. I would welcome any opinions. And one final thing. How were these guns actually fired? Teh SPAD had triggers and cables but what were they connedted to? Sorry for the long msg. Regards

I think the guns on the SPAD sat in metal wells so the leavers wouldnt have been able to be pointed into the cockpit without modification to the gun wells.... that might have been possible but the instrument panel may have gotten in the way. On the other hand, the Camel had its handles pointed into the cockpit. Which your right, makes more sense for the pilots ease of use.

tcrean7828 · 9 April 2009, 09:28 AM

Mate,
I do not think it is possible (IMHO), at least not while in the air. The pilot would have to somehow place the rudder stick between his knees, keep his feet on the rudder bar, somehow reach under and over the cowling to pulll the belt along and feed it into the acceptance slot and then somehow cock the weapon several times to advance the belt. Dump the rest of the ammo belt into the ammo canaster, so that it would feed right and still fly the plane in level flight for quuite a few minutes. I would say that it would be a rare feat with someone with 4 arms and eyes in the back of his head to say the least.

If it was possible, I sure would like to know, cus' I think I read about it somewhere in a book, but the book could have been fiction as far as my memory goes.

and before I forget:

Welcome to the flagship of the Aerodrome - where the greatest minds on the planet get together and talk about their favorite subject - WW1.

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

P.S.

Werner Voss fan here.

Dan_San_Abbott · 9 April 2009, 11:25 AM

Nacho:
It generally took two men to load the ammuntion one in the cockpit (standing) layering the belt into the ammunition box, The feed chutes had to be removed in order to gain access to the ammunition box.
and and the other feeding the man in the cockpit. Most belt contained 500 rounds. After the the ammunition has been stowed, the feed chutes were put back in place and the belt end fed through the chute. The top cover was opened and the belt end fed into the receiver, and then the top cover was closed. When the pilot was ready to take off he would operate the loading handle and put a round in the chamber. Now the guns would be ready to fire. It would not be possible for the pilot to do this reloading operation.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

tcrean7828 · 9 April 2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

Nacho:
It generally took two men to load the ammuntion one in the cockpit (standing) layering the belt into the ammunition box, The feed chutes had to be removed in order to gain access to the ammunition box.
and and the other feeding the man in the cockpit. Most belt contained 500 rounds. After the the ammunition has been stowed, the feed chutes were put back in place and the belt end fed through the chute. The top cover was opened and the belt end fed into the receiver, and then the top cover was closed. When the pilot was ready to take off he would operate the loading handle and put a round in the chamber. Now the guns would be ready to fire. It would not be possible for the pilot to do this reloading operation.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Mate,
Dan-San, thanks for the confirmation. I didn't think it was possible.

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom