Breguet's Crash File Challenge Nr.384

FOKKERJ · 22 February 2009, 02:04 AM

Wilkommen to the BCFC Nr.384.

While I enjoyed running one of these at 12:00 Noon P.S.T., I must admit that Midnight is more convenient for me some of the time.

I submit the following for your entertainment mostly, enjoy:

For one full point I require the following:

#1 Make and model of machine
#2 Number of bays, wing and aileron shape, centersection cut-out are always helpful for proper identification.
#3 Color scheme is optional, as is the names of the crew, date, and circumstances of the Boo-Boo!

CLUE Nr.I "Flak damaged petrol tank".

The scoreboard after #383:

46.70 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger ¤ Ace of Aces ¤
36.00 Froggy ¤
32.70 Flamingo ¤
30.10 Rbailey ¤
23.40 Breguet
21.40 Richard B
18.15 YavorD
12.75 Aquilius
12.00 Varese2002
09.25 AROTH
08.10 Rod_Filan
08.00 ONEALM
07.90 Gregvan
07.50 matte_kudasai
06.80 '14-'18aviationcollector
05.75 Ross
05.70 Jeroplan
05.50 Expositor
05.50 Gilles
05.00 Dan_San
05.00 Kilian
05.00 Laserlloyd.............................Have to wait three hours!
04.00 Edmond .............................May start immediately!
04.00 Eric
04.00 Patrick
03.50 sergio_vitalio
03.30 PaulForster
03.20 Colin A Owers
03.20 Crankcase
03.00 Crimso
02.70 Tbstreet
02.60 Catfish
02.00 Albatros_Ace
02.00 Cruze
02.00 Rickenbaron
01.80 gregorydquist
01.80 Tom L
01.50 Nieuport 14
01.45 Ransom E. Olds
01.00 Ampovandak
01.00 Berman
01.00 brisfitworks
01.00 Cliff
01.00 Graham Hunter
01.00 Pvernon
01.00 rammjaeger
01.00 Rexee
01.00 RONNY BAR
01.00 Troy Raines
01.00 Lodzermensch
00.50 Miroslav Pokorny
00.10 SCMc

Previous Breguet's Crash Files

THE RULES
1. All aircraft are of the 14-18 period (Must have left the ground during this period).
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3.All "ACES" with a score of 5.0 or higher must obey the 3.0 hour handicap. All others with a score of ZERO to 4.99 may start immediately, if not sooner! Offenders will be dealt with severely!
4. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
5. And whom ever wins this challenge will have to provide a new one! If this can not be done for any reason, please PM Breguet and he will take over as host!
6. If an ace gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next challenge. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
7. The final arbitrator of all things to do with the "rules" is Breguet

REMEMBER: "IF YOU CAN'T RUN WITH THE BIG DOGS.... STAY ON THE PORCH!"

Oh ya, and have fun!

HAPPY TRAILS, FOKKERJ

Lodzermensch · 22 February 2009, 04:28 AM

Hello,

I see things getting harder.

1. Judging from the shape of the front fuselage, the fuel tank under the upper wing, panel radiator and the shape of exhaust pipes – this is Albatros B.II. I think it was license built by Luft-Fahrzeug Gesellschaft Roland – the rudder cross seems to be larger then crosses applied in Albatros factory although has the same shape;
2. Two-bay, rectangular shaped wings with single spar; rectangular ailerons with rounded tip ( that sounds a bit strange, but I can not describe it in another way, in English ); the trailing edge cut-out was of triangular shape but the upper wing was not fully covered in center section.

What else? – painting scheme – fuselage - probably natural wooden finish with metal panels painted in grey.

I have no idea of the names of the crew, their wives/ girlfriends, puppet dog and postal addresses as well as the date and circumstances of the Boo-Boo.

P.S. There is another one option possible.

Greetings

Marek

richard B · 22 February 2009, 05:04 AM

I think it's a late Albatros B I
Side radiators ,big rudder inverted V struts ...for B I/B II

But Wheels and no-rhino exhaust let me to vote for a BI

Lodzermensch · 22 February 2009, 08:39 AM

Bonsoir richard B,

Yes, it is very difficult to tell B.I from B.II. I agree that the aircraft has features of BI but I am still convinced that this is Albatros B. II. At first glance, it seemed to me that the radiator is composed of seven panels. Now I am not sure. There is too much space between the first panel and ventilation gaps and the lower pipe is too long. It is possible that the radiator had nine panels of which two first were removed or destroyed in fight. In this case the side radiator fits to Albatros B.I or ... some Albatros B.II from the second batch produced by Roland (L-F GmbH. in Berlin ). Spoke wheels, lack of rhino exhaust pipe and inverted V-struts do not explain much in case of Albatros B.II. and B.I.

Maybe, the shape of main fuel tank is the clue. It looks like from B.II but I have never seen tanks used in B.I.

Anyway it is difficult to distinguish the two types without the wings.

Greetings

Marek

Lodzermensch · 22 February 2009, 11:52 AM

Hello,

There is another hint I have not noticed so far. This is “something” round placed on the front of the fuselage. I have no idea what is it, but it can be seen on B.I only. So it seems that Richard was right.

Greetings

Marek

FOKKERJ · 23 February 2009, 01:16 AM

My source says C.I, but it appears to be a B.I or a B.II.
I can't see the height location of the horizontal stabilizer, the radiator panels do appear to have seven, I have a foto of a C.I with nine to ten radiator panels (I have also seen them with seven). Can't see an observer/rear gunner's ring!
Does have the two ventilation slots under the propeller shaft opening on the bottom of the nose cowling.
One thing I can see is the location of the front cabane trestle strut to airframe (cowling). It projects further forward on the C.I (more angle) than the "B" type. This one looks to be the "B" type. I wish that we could identify the engine's exhaust header pipes, that might give a clue as to the maker.
Also the gravity fuel tank cylinder, I have seen the C.I with and without these.

I was fairly convinced that this was a C.I, but have been researching this fotograf and am inclined to agree with either Marek and or Richard.

Unless someone comes forth with a definite proof of ID, I have to call this challenge a draw. Not a three way! Was I the only one that could see C.I characteristics?

I award 0.75 points to Marek for a very thorough and well presented argument in favor of the Albatros B.II and 0.75 of a point to Richard B. for his short, but good answer of Albatros B.I.

The next challenge Host is.... Which ever of these two guys post a reply here with intent of notification of accepting the next challenge.

Albatros B.I/B.II

Congratulations to both of our Team Mates!

The scoreboard after #384:

46.70 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger ¤ Ace of Aces ¤
36.00 Froggy ¤
32.70 Flamingo ¤
30.10 Rbailey ¤
23.40 Breguet
22.15 Richard B

18.15 YavorD
12.75 Aquilius
12.00 Varese2002
09.25 AROTH
08.10 Rod_Filan
08.00 ONEALM
07.90 Gregvan
07.50 matte_kudasai
06.80 '14-'18aviationcollector
05.75 Ross
05.70 Jeroplan
05.50 Expositor
05.50 Gilles
05.00 Dan_San
05.00 Kilian
05.00 Laserlloyd.............................Have to wait three hours!
04.00 Edmond .............................May start immediately!
04.00 Eric
04.00 Patrick
03.50 sergio_vitalio
03.30 PaulForster
03.20 Colin A Owers
03.20 Crankcase
03.00 Crimso
02.70 Tbstreet
02.60 Catfish
02.00 Albatros_Ace
02.00 Cruze
02.00 Rickenbaron
01.80 gregorydquist
01.80 Tom L
01.75 Lodzermensch

01.50 Nieuport 14
01.45 Ransom E. Olds
01.00 Ampovandak
01.00 Berman
01.00 brisfitworks
01.00 Cliff
01.00 Graham Hunter
01.00 Pvernon
01.00 rammjaeger
01.00 Rexee
01.00 RONNY BAR
01.00 Troy Raines
00.50 Miroslav Pokorny
00.10 SCMc

Previous Breguet's Crash Files

THE RULES
1. All aircraft are of the 14-18 period (Must have left the ground during this period).
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3.All "ACES" with a score of 5.0 or higher must obey the 3.0 hour handicap. All others with a score of ZERO to 4.99 may start immediately, if not sooner! Offenders will be dealt with severely!
4. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
5. And whom ever wins this challenge will have to provide a new one! If this can not be done for any reason, please PM Breguet and he will take over as host!
6. If an ace gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next challenge. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
7. The final arbitrator of all things to do with the "rules" is Breguet

REMEMBER: "IF YOU CAN'T RUN WITH THE BIG DOGS.... STAY ON THE PORCH!"

Oh ya, and have fun!

HAPPY TRAILS, FOKKERJ

P.S. Marek, the name of the puppet dog was "BOO"!

richard B · 24 February 2009, 12:54 AM

Hello
Thanks Lodzermensch for your your Fair Play

and FokkerJ for the 0.75

I think that YOU and FokkerJ know much more about those LDD, B I,B II ,C I than I ever will :the reason for changing B I to B II remains obscure to me (Only more powerfull motors ? ) ,and I believe that there are more visual differences between a late B II and an early B II than an early B II and an late B I .(not to mention the single ,two ,and three bays LDD ).So far I know ,the challenge plane could be a very early C I too .

I am now far away from home (babies sitting for my daughter two sons ,650 miles from my Bretagne and library ...)

So ,please Lodzermensch , post the next BREGUETCRASHFILECHALLENGE

Greetings from Chambéry/Savoie

Richard

Lodzermensch · 24 February 2009, 02:36 AM

Hello,

Quote:

Thanks Lodzermensch for your your Fair Play

You’re welcome. Victory is always welcome, but not at any price.
At least as long as we do not play for money.

I hope, we do not.

As for the next Challenge. No problem. I will be able to prepare something although my database of crashed aircraft is rather poor. I think, I shall submit it within twelve hours. I have some work to do, now.

By the way

Quote:

P.S. Marek, the name of the puppet dog was "BOO"!

Thus, there were two dogs.

Greetings

Marek

FOKKERJ · 24 February 2009, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard B

Hello
Thanks Lodzermensch for your your Fair Play

and FokkerJ for the 0.75

I think that YOU and FokkerJ know much more about those LDD, B I,B II ,C I than I ever will :the reason for changing B I to B II remains obscure to me (Only more powerfull motors ? ) ,and I believe that there are more visual differences between a late B II and an early B II than an early B II and an late B I .(not to mention the single ,two ,and three bays LDD ).So far I know ,the challenge plane could be a very early C I too .

I am now far away from home (babies sitting for my daughter two sons ,650 miles from my Bretagne and library ...)

So ,please Lodzermensch , post the next BREGUETCRASHFILECHALLENGE

Greetings from Chambéry/Savoie

Richard

Thank you Richard.

I believe that this probably is an Albatros B.II as Marek has stated, but without more visual references on this stripped airframe it is really difficult to say for sure. I thought it was a C.I, but the cabane trestle strut location apparently does not support that. Again, I believe that a proper engine identification would be a tremendous help here.

Lodzermensch, the reins are yours.
Please let us know that you accept this challenge.

Thanks, Jay

FOKKERJ · 24 February 2009, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lodzermensch

Hello,

You’re welcome. Victory is always welcome, but not at any price.
At least as long as we do not play for money.

I hope, we do not.

As for the next Challenge. No problem. I will be able to prepare something although my database of crashed aircraft is rather poor. I think, I shall submit it within twelve hours. I have some work to do, now.

By the way

Thus, there were two dogs.

Greetings

Marek

Contact me for my pay-pal account and the easy payment plan!

We look forward to your submitted challenge.... Later, FOKKERJ