Breguet's aircraft ID challenge #540

[Lodzermensch]

Hello,

Thanks a lot Yavor. This explains to me my doubts. The wing in the picture is certainly Taube.

Greetings

Marek

[YavorD]

Originally Posted by Lodzermensch

Hello,

Thanks a lot Yavor. This explains to me my doubts. The wing in the picture is certainly Taube.

Greetings

Marek

Hi Marek,

Harlan Pfeiltaube is yet another machine with more pronounced Taube-like features.
There is a picture in
Peter Supf, Das Buch der Deutschen Fluggeschichte, Band 2: Vorkriegszeit - Kriegszeit - Nachkriegszeit bis 1932 (1958) S.688.

Harlan Eindecker 1911(?) as shown in Flugsport.



Regards,
Yavor

[Rbailey]

According to Lange, Harlan had 3 eindeckers as well as the 1912/13 military Taube type. The first was built in 1911, the next 2 in 1912. No. 2 had a 70 hp Argus motor and seems to be the type used by Turkey.

But there seem to be a number of taube variants - some of the straight-wing machines may have been built in taube-wing versions.

Here are some pictures of various Harlans - I don't have one of the first.

[Lodzermensch]

Hello Rbailey,

No. 2 had a 70 hp Argus motor and seems to be the type used by Turkey.

In turn, the source of the Turkish and caption on the postcard suggest that the Turkish Harlan was powered by a 100 hp Argus engine.

Anyway, that was another informative Challenge.

P.S. But the fourth, it is not Harlan. It looks like Albatros Eindecker.

Greetings

Marek

[Aquilius]

Hello again!

I had some browser problems today - I'm sorry but I couldn't answer earlier today.

I know it is tricky to find correct designations of many pre-war designes
(and I spent most of the time by sorting them ) because many of them had no
company designations.
You can find all mentioned above just as "Harlan Eindecker".

Now that you compiled a lot on Harlans machines, I'll offer you what I sorted out.
(What of course must not be the last word told here)

I have 4 different Harlan types.

• The first originated in the 3rd design of Max Schüler, that went into the property of
Wolfgang Harlan with the turn of 1910, after Schüler couldn't refound the money
Harlan had lent him.
I found a designation Harlan Eindecker Typ A – it was first flown in December 1910
(by Schüler) but would be the type 1911.
It is to see on the second drawing Yavor presented (post #12).
- uncovered fuselage, tank between the 2-wheel landing gear and straight wings with warping.

• The second one of 1911 is the Harlan Militär-Eindecker – the type used in the Balkan War.
(designated by me )
It had a lot similarities to the first one, but got a covering around the engine and cockpit,
had also straight wings, but pictures show ailerons. Again there was a tank between the
landing gear, that now seemed to use 4 wheels.
Pictures by Marek (post #9) and Rbailey (post#13 2nd pic)

• Nr. 3 would be the Harlan Pfeil-Taube of 1912. It had a boxy fuselage with warping
Taube-wings, arrowed and attached to the fuselage with a gap. Tailplane was straight
and landing gear had 2 wheels and a single skid only. It probably used a Windhoff
“Stirnkühler” ontop the engine. To see on Sanke-Card #208.
(will see if could upload some pictures later)
I’m missing features and history here.

• the 4th (and last ???) is the Harlan Eindecker Typ 1912 – which was questioned here.
The type was sold from 1912 to 1913 and is therefore to find as Typ 1912/1913 also.
It had a complete covered fuselage, an “early Harlan tail”, twin-wheel landing gear with
two skids and no tank between (no real twin-wheels but two on each skid)
The wings used ailerons and where developed more and more into a Taube-shape.
To see with Rbailey’s post #13 as first and third.
(The picutre I offered probably shows one of the earlier variants)

• The last picture offered by Rbailey in post #13 is the Bussard Pfeil-Taube
– a 1914 developement of the previous Harlan types.
Bussard took over the remains of Harlan in early 1914.

...to be continued

[Aquilius]

I needed to be a bit nitpicking here. A good description or what happened with it
would qualify for the score. Just I haven’t seen a completely covered 1911 version.

I don’t know how many copies were built or sold of the Harlan Eindecker Typ 1912.
The most often mentioned achievements with it were:

• Ernst Krüger won the “Rund um Berlin” race in August/September 1912
• Herman Reichelt flew the first 1025 km cross-country in from Johannisthal to Paris
in September 1913. He stopped near Dortmund once.
When he tried to fly the distance without stopping in Oktober 1913, he crashed into
a farmers house near Siegen.

Reichelt who had bought his Harlan Eindecker in summer 1913 repaired it again an flew
it on various aero-shows when he left Johannisthal in early 1914. He crashed to dead in
his “old Harlan” in April 1914 on the airfield Kaditz in the near of Dresden.

scores are:

0.40 for Marek (Harlan Eindecker)
0.40 for Rbailey (type 1912 & Ernst Krüger – Rund um Berlin)
0.20 for Yavor (Wolfgang Harlan & Hermann Reichelt – Berlin-Paris)

The next challenge is for Marek, who only struggeled on an apparently not existing
definitive designation of the Harlan Eindecker Typ 1912

The scoreboard after challenge #540 is:

98.00 Varese2002 ☼
69.70 Dave_Kent ☼
59.60 Rbailey ☼
31.30 Cruze ☼
17.70 YavorD
17.15 Froggy
16.50 Aquilius
13.30 Rod Filan
12.60 Flamingo
11.90 richard B
09.50 matte_kudasai
08.40 JohnMacG
08.10 Breguet
07.70 Dan-San
07.70 EdStevens
07.60 trp81
07.30 Patrick
07.10 Colin A. Owers
06.70 Ampovandak
06.10 joegertler
06.00 Eric Goedkoop
05.70 Doc
05.70 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger
05.60 ercoupepilot
05.45 GregE
05.30 Crimso
05.30 Der Grüne Flieger
05.20 Gilles
05.10 bshatzer
05.00 Tom L........................ 12hours waiting
04.70 AROTH........................ No waiting
04.70 dpolglaze
04.40 Ross Moorhouse
04.30 edmondthieffry
04.00 greenknight
03.70 Berman
03.40 Lodzermensch
02.50 Gregoire
02.10 Crankcase
02.00 Rickenbaron
02.00 sobrien
01.70 Kilian
01.60 sergio_vitalio
01.30 Cigogne
01.20 Ransom E. Olds
01.00 airplane176
01.00 Albatros_Ace
01.00 austin08
01.00 Brad
01.00 Catfish
01.00 Cliff
01.00 cubsfan4life
01.00 gregorydquist
01.00 Luf-Rick
01.00 Mike Westorp
01.00 paolomiana
01.00 Peter Zambori
01.00 rammjaeger
01.00 Rexee
01.00 SL DIII
01.00 Tripehound
00.80 Machinbird
00.80 tbstreet
00.80 toxisch
00.60 Sreiko
00.50 ’14-‘18aviationcollector
00.50 Martin Irvine
00.40 Vilkata
00.30 albapfalzd30
00.30 Miroslav Pokorny
00.30 Nieuport14
00.20 Paul_J._Fisher

Cheers

Aquilius

[YavorD]

Thank you for the listing of Harlan Eindeckers, Aquilius!
And for 0.2 points too. It was long time ago when I scored in this Challenge
Regards,
Yavor

[Lodzermensch]

Hello everybody,

Thank you Aquilius for the comprehensive explanation of the topic and for the points, of course. It was perfectly prepared Challenge.

If you still have a problem with loading images, there you go:

No 3 – Harlan Pfeil-Taube of 1912 – Sanke postcard no 208





Hope to the next Challenge in 24 hours.

Greetings

Marek

[Aquilius]

Originally Posted by YavorD

It was long time ago when I scored in this Challenge

Regards,
Yavor

Yavor, I have noted that.

Just I see you were the only one who came with the complete name of the designer
Wolfgang Harlan. So you well earned your two cents here!
And I hope to see you scoring again.
Only it becomes not easier with all the experts around...


And Marek, thanks for posting the Pfeil-Taube here.

I think you can get an impression about the different designes.
At least the general outlines.


Cheers

Aquilius

[YavorD]

Thank you, Aquilius!
Just to ad to the story.
Karl Grulich accumulated flight time during Johannisthal Flugwoche, June 4 to 11, 1911, was 521 minutes. Jahnow was flying Harlan Eindecker too and achieved 80 minutes.
During Johannisthal Herbst Flugwoche, September 24 to October 1, 1911, Grulich was fourth with accumulated time of 10 hours 10 minutes.
Karl Grulich established an endurance record of 1 hour 35 minutes with three passengers on January 25, 1912.
Ernst Krueger was most successful Harlan pilot in 1912 and Hermann Reichelt in 1913.
Regards,
Yavor