Breguet's aircraft ID challenge #542

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Lodzermensch

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I’m not sure if it is correct because the engine visible on the picture posted in this thread looks like Mercedes. According to Russian sources I found, only the first copy of DH-2 was fitted with this engine and it was Mercedes D.I not D.III. The problem is – it is not confirmed by the Swiss sources. ---

If this Mercedes installation is not confirmed by Suisse sources it is indeed a scrappy sort of information, which unfortunately smudges the internet.

Cheers

Kees

[Stig Jarlevik]

Dear All

The DH.2 was built in six examples with WNr 47-52 and received Swiss military serials 348 to 353 respectively. Maker was the Eidg. Konstruktions-Werkstätte, Abteilung Flug in Thun.
Engine was an Argus As-II built locally on licence by Gebrüder Bühler in Uzwil, Switzerland.

The photo depicted shows then the first prototype of the DH.2 and nothing else, before handover to the Fliegertruppe in 1916.

Cheers
Stig

[Varese2002]

Thanks Stig, interesting information. So the number 47 on the tail really was the Werkenummer. Curious what were the 46 Werkenummers preceding it from the Eidg. Konstruktions-Werkstätte, Abteilung Flug.

Cheers

Kees

[Stig Jarlevik]

Indeed a very good question Kees

Wish I could answer that. For some strange reason the only WNr known seems to be for those six DH.2

Besides the six DH.1 (serials 241-246) which should have preceded the DH.2, and

guessed

by me to have WNr 41-46, I have nothing on K+W!

On the face of it, Switzerland does not seem to have started any licence production of various French or German aeroplanes at the time. The Fliegertruppe bought their equipment from these countries instead, so basically I have no idea what WNr 1 - 46 REALLY was, (beside my guessing of course...) I don't know anything about the general economy of Swiss citizens at the time, but looking at the Fliegertruppe and what they bought it is comparable to what the Swedish Army bought at the time, and Sweden was not a very rich country in those days, so I find it hard to see that K+W should have licence built some 40 odd aeroplanes to rich Swiss citizens before they built their DH.1!

Early Swiss aviation (or should I say Swiss aviation altogether?) is sadly lacking on my bookshelves. I have in all THREE books about allied/axis force landings during WW 2 in Switzerland while only TWO books which is partly about "our period". The only monographs I have is about the Bf 109 (what else...?) and Alfred Comte. That's it. Seven books. Compare that with some 50 books on Dutch aviation and 34 on Belgian (just comparing your neck of the woods), Switzerland comes up sadly wanting!!

Admittedly I have no contacts down the Alps but IF they do publish anything in Switzerland they sure must keep this a close secret. Nothing is sold in German, French, Italian bookshops not mentioning British or American ones.

Any Swiss persons on this site who can comment??

Cheers
Stig

[Varese2002]

Thanks again Stig for making absolutely clear that here is an unknown gap (blackhole ?) in Suisse aviation history. I do think it also very unlikely that K+W Thune should have built about 40-odd machines before the DH.1 and DH.2, epecially as Haefeli was their first designer?

There are a few questions which needs te be answered -

• (1) when started the Abteilung Flug of Eidg. Konstruktions-Werkstätte Thun operating?

• (2) were they actually building machines before the coming home of August Haefeli, probably building designs of other (Suisse) flying pioneers

The answer on these questions give 'new' light on early Suisse avaition history. For instance, where were the designs / machines of Dufeaux or Grandjean been built? Sure K+W Thun had the expertise, the personnel and the machinery to build designs of others against cost.

Answers on the two above questions could validate this (wild) theory.

Information on the Eidgenössische Konstruktionswerkstätte Thun can be found in the Suisse Bundesarchiv here

At least one book could give more detail on the Abteilung Flug, covering the first hundred years (1863-1963) of history on K+W Thun.

Eidg(enössische) Konstruktionswerkstätte (Thun), and Hans Siegenthaler. 1963. Eidg. Konstruktionswerkstätte Thun, 1863-1963: Festschrift zum 100jährigen Bestehen. Thun: [s.n.]

Cheers

Kees

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hallo again Kees

Well the K+W looks like the Swiss version of Krupp
They decided to expand into aeroplane production and did so in 1915 and the DH.1 was their first design. As far as I can tell they did not build anything before that. For some unknown reason they started their c/n range with 41 (IF my guess is correct...)

Most probably there were many foreigners who flew in Switzerland, but I have extremely little information on that

The three early Swiss giants were of course the Gentlemen you mention.
The Dufaux brothers built appx 5 aeroplanes, two going to the predecessor of the Fliegertruppe (the latter formed in 1914)
Grandjean is much worse to come to grips with, and a wild guess is that he possibly built some 7-8 aeroplanes, one going to the Fliegertruppe with himself as the pilot in 1914.

Cheers
Stig