Breguet's aircraft ID challenge #542

[Aquilius]

Welcome to Breguet’s aircraft ID Challenge #542!


To let the show go on, here is another bird for you:


I know everybody loves two-seaters

The scoreboard is:

98.00 Varese2002 ☼
69.70 Dave_Kent ☼
59.60 Rbailey ☼
31.30 Cruze ☼
17.70 YavorD
17.15 Froggy
16.50 Aquilius
13.30 Rod Filan
12.60 Flamingo
11.90 richard B
09.50 matte_kudasai
08.40 JohnMacG
08.10 Breguet
07.70 Dan-San
07.70 EdStevens
07.60 trp81
07.30 Patrick
07.10 Colin A. Owers
06.70 Ampovandak
06.10 joegertler
06.00 Eric Goedkoop
05.70 Doc
05.70 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger
05.60 ercoupepilot
05.45 GregE
05.30 Crimso
05.30 Der Grüne Flieger
05.20 Gilles
05.10 bshatzer
05.00 Tom L........................ 12hours waiting
04.70 AROTH........................ No waiting
04.70 dpolglaze
04.40 Ross Moorhouse
04.30 edmondthieffry
04.00 greenknight
03.70 Berman
03.40 Lodzermensch
02.50 Gregoire
02.10 Crankcase
02.00 austin08
02.00 Rickenbaron
02.00 sobrien
01.70 Kilian
01.60 sergio_vitalio
01.30 Cigogne
01.20 Ransom E. Olds
01.00 airplane176
01.00 Albatros_Ace
01.00 Brad
01.00 Catfish
01.00 Cliff
01.00 cubsfan4life
01.00 gregorydquist
01.00 Luf-Rick
01.00 Mike Westorp
01.00 paolomiana
01.00 Peter Zambori
01.00 rammjaeger
01.00 Rexee
01.00 SL DIII
01.00 Tripehound
00.80 Machinbird
00.80 tbstreet
00.80 toxisch
00.60 Sreiko
00.50 ’14-‘18aviationcollector
00.50 Martin Irvine
00.40 Vilkata
00.30 albapfalzd30
00.30 Miroslav Pokorny
00.30 Nieuport14
00.20 Paul_J._Fisher

Previous challenges are to find here: Aeroplanes 1914 - 1918* -* Breguet's Aircraft Challenge* --

Breguet's Rules

•The thread title must be "Bréguet's aircraft ID challenge #......"
•The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
•The completed aircraft must have been either; designed, built or have left the ground during the '14-'18 period and be identifiable by the poster.
•The photo must show the whole aircraft - from whatever angle, or at least 2 views of a 3 view drawing (photo by preference).
•Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified
(always check the list at earlyaviator.com/br.challenge when in doubt !)
•If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of an aircraft for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the aircraft is submitted.
•Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they become an ACE. Once they become an ACE they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
•To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
•The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
•If an ace gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
• The final arbiter in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

Have a good hunt!


Aquilius

[Lodzermensch]

Hello,

The shape of fuselage and vertical rudder, the shape of wings, interplane struts and cabane struts - this is by far the LVG C type. The question is – which one. Although the picture is small, it seems to me that I see Mercedes D. III engine. This means LVG C.II.


Greetings

Marek

[YavorD]

I am going to agree on the L.V.G., B-type however - L.V.G. B.II.
Typical early L.V.G. wing cellule, cabane struts, ailerons, no armament visible.
Regards,
Yavor

[Aquilius]

Well, I just checked, there are not many LVG types in the challenge...

But this biplane originates from another workshop.


Though there could be a yarn connected to LVG in all the mysterious events of these days. I'm not sure about and I don't know if searching in this direction would make any sense.

You have to try again!

Aquilius

[Flamingo]

Hi everybody

this is quite puzzling, it's not an LVG nor any type of the bigger manufacturers seem to fit.
All I am sure about is the engine, an early Mercedes D.I(100hp) or a D.II (120hp) which look almost identical. The clues are the "T" shaped intake manifolds and the spacing of the rocker boxes in pairs.

My guess is it's from a small factory, very rare and maybe a one off prototype. No iron crosses indicate it was used by a factory flying school.

At first the small rudder made me think of the Kondor W1 but the struts are very different. Another type with similar fin and rudder is from Germania so my guess is a B type of that factory.

[Aquilius]

I'm sorry.

It's not a Kondor nor a Germania.


Cheers

Aquilius

[Lodzermensch]

Hello,

In such event, this may be Russian Lebed’ XI (Лебедь-ХI), which in fact was a copy of many types of Austro-Hungarian and German Albatrosses C-types. Russians assembled these machines from parts obtained from captured aircrafts.

Greetings

Marek

[Aquilius]

Well, Marek, after all Lebed is not a bad call.
Just this biplane is not russian for sure.


You haven’t let me host a 24-hour challenge about one year now (I’ve been asking a Fokker type then ).

This seems to be a quite rare one though there have been built more than from the most others I offered till now.

Joachim might be right with the Mercedes engine, what means we are looking at the prototype here. The series machines (a small series only, but it went into service) got another engine.

And usually I’m not offering such small fuzzy pictures, but I couldn’t resist to post it.
Now, by searching myself I could locate a clearer pic, which I will not held back.
For the botanists of you, there is also some flora in.

This is how it looks from the other side:



Good luck!

Aquilius

[YavorD]

Excellent picture! Thanks!
May be it helps a bit but I am short of sources to compare. Some features are similar to rhe only picture of N.F.W. B.I known to me, e.g. slender fuselage and tail bracing. There are differences in engine installation, however.
Regards,
Yavor

[Varese2002]

The second picture makes it clear that this is a machine with very clean lines, probably built as a private venture end 1913 / beginning 1914. Given the clear visbility of No.47 on the tail (the Werkenummer) I would say that this machine is a Versuch machine of Euler which later evaluated to the other Euler training biplanes.

Look at the similarity with Challenge 335 which was identified as an Euler Type 1914 trainer [Militär-Doppeldecker Typ 1914 der Euler-Werke].

Cheers

Kees