BREGUET's CRASH FILE CHALLENGE Nr.404

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by Varese2002

Marek, you are right.

This is Marine number 484 - a Lohner T with an 150 hp Benz engine - Ordernumber [Auftragnummer] AE.620 delivered as a replacement for the earlier delivered Model T which got the Marine number 161.

As I already said , the German Marine had not much luck with the Lohner flying boats - the first delivered one (161) on April 17, 1915 was already completely destroyed on May 21, 1915. The replacement machine (484) was delivered to the German Marine on July 15, 1915.

Looking at the picture of this challenge 484 made a minor mishap at landing which could be repaired. The background city is quite distinct and as the Lohners were shipped to Warnemünde it could be that town. Is there anybody who can verify this?

Source: Reinhard Keimel - Fluhzeuge der Österreichischen Firma Lohner 1909 - 1923.

Cheers

Kees

Hi Guys,
The only information I have with this fotograf is:
"German WW1 Water-Airplane Kriegsmarine 1914-18
backside : lost Water-Airplane secure somewere russia Latvia (winton, wintou?)"
I hope that this helps.
The following is the untouched version:

The 484 is difficult to decypher, but I would like to look it up a to be sure. I did not know what this machine was for sure, but knew that I could look it up.
List of German navy seaplane serials

This is what I found: "484 Br W (150 Bz)", I believe this to be an error and I think Joachim is right.
I believe that there is enough concensus here to agree with Joachim, but would like your input before I award the points. I will check back here to see what you think.
Best Wishes, Jay

['14-'18aviationcollector]

Hi,

there was a copy of this photo for sale on eBay last night.

Cheers,

David.

[FOKKERJ]

Hi David,

Did SAMMELAS give any information with this fotograf?

It always amazes me at how many of the same foto or in this case two different fotografs from approximately the same origin (one or more photographers) show up. More so when people claim that you are using their image when any number of prints can be made off of one negative or the question of when their ownership takes effect, before or after they take possession of it and its still plastered all over the net!

Thanks for sharing this image with us as it is much clearer than my image.



Best Wishes, Jay

P.S. The "LIST" gives #116 as Br AE & #484 as a Hansa-Brandenburg W, I'll have to contact the Author about correcting that.

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by Varese2002

Marek, you are right.

This is Marine number 484 - a Lohner T with an 150 hp Benz engine - Ordernumber [Auftragnummer] AE.620 delivered as a replacement for the earlier delivered Model T which got the Marine number 161.

As I already said , the German Marine had not much luck with the Lohner flying boats - the first delivered one (161) on April 17, 1915 was already completely destroyed on May 21, 1915. The replacement machine (484) was delivered to the German Marine on July 15, 1915.

Looking at the picture of this challenge 484 made a minor mishap at landing which could be repaired. The background city is quite distinct and as the Lohners were shipped to Warnemünde it could be that town. Is there anybody who can verify this?

Source: Reinhard Keimel - Fluhzeuge der Österreichischen Firma Lohner 1909 - 1923.

Cheers

Kees

I believe that we can agree that this Seeflugzeug is a Lohner Type T possibly at "somewhere in Russia Latvia (winton, wintou?)" It has a very boxy fuselage and different top wing and aileron shape than anything in my resources show.

Congratulations to Flamingo!

I award one full point and hand over the reins to Joachim.

Scoreboard after crash file # 404 – Lohner Type T

49.50 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger ¤ Ace of Aces ¤
36.20 Froggy ¤ Nr.I Wing Man ¤
35.70 Flamingo ¤
31.10 Rbailey ¤
23.40 Breguet
22.15 Richard B
19.15 YavorD
14.25 Aquilius
12.00 Varese2002
10.25 AROTH
08.10 Rod_Filan
08.00 ONEALM
07.90 Gregvan
07.75 Lodzermensch
07.50 matte_kudasai
06.80 '14-'18aviationcollector
05.75 Ross
05.70 Jeroplan
05.50 Expositor
05.50 Gilles
05.00 Dan_San
05.00 Kilian
05.00 Laserlloyd..........................Have to wait three hours!
04.00 Edmond.............................May start immediately
04.00 Eric
04.00 Patrick
03.80 gregorydquist
03.50 sergio_vitalio
03.30 PaulForster
03.20 Colin A Owers
03.20 Crankcase
03.10 Catfish
03.00 Crimso
02.70 Tbstreet
02.00 Albatros_Ace
02.00 Cruze
02.00 Rickenbaron
01.80 Tom L
01.50 Nieuport 14
01.45 Ransom E. Olds
01.00 Ampovandak
01.00 Berman
01.00 brisfitworks
01.00 Cliff
01.00 Graham Hunter
01.00 Pvernon
01.00 rammjaeger
01.00 Rexee
01.00 RONNY BAR
01.00 Sobrien
01.00 Troy Raines
00.50 Miroslav Pokorny
00.10 SCMc


Previous Breguet's Crash Files


THE RULES


1. All aircraft are of the 14-18 period (Must have left the ground during this period).
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3.All "ACES" with a score of 5.0 or higher must obey the 3.0 hour handicap. All others with a score of ZERO to 4.99 may start immediately, if not sooner! Offenders will be dealt with severely!
4. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
5. And whom ever wins this challenge will have to provide a new one! If this can not be done for any reason, please PM Breguet and he will take over as host!
6. If an ace gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next challenge. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
7. The final arbitrator of all things to do with the "rules" is Breguet.[/QUOTE]

HAPPY TRAILS, FOKKERJ

P.S. BRUNO.... I think that Flamingo is sneaking up and coveting your Nr.I Wingman spot!

[Lodzermensch]

Hello,

I can not identify any place in Latvia of the name similar to winton or wintu but location in Latvia makes sense. The river may be Daugava. The town in the background it may be Riga.

Greetings

Marek

[Lodzermensch]

Hello FOKKERJ,

somewhere in Russia Latvia (winton, wintou?)

I know, for the Americans all Eastern Europe is a province. But for havens sake, please do not call Latvia a part of Russia. It sounds like: somewhere in Guatemala, USA.

Greetings

Marek

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Lodzermensch

Hello FOKKERJ,



I know, for the Americans all Eastern Europe is a province. But for havens sake, please do not call Latvia a part of Russia. It sounds like: somewhere in Guatemala, USA.

Greetings

Marek

Being not an American in 1915 Latvia was surely within the influence of the Russian Czarist empire. Sure this picture is not taken in Latvia or any other Baltic state as we are looking at an event which took place in 1915 or at the latest furst half of 1916.

The list of Marine numbers for seaplanes is an 'older' list which is at variance with the list presented by Peter M. Grosz in Over the Front.

The location of the picture is more likely one of the operational eastern navy stations like Warnemünde, Bug, Wyk auf Rügen, Nest and Putzig near Danzig.

Cheers

Kees

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by Lodzermensch

Hello FOKKERJ,



I know, for the Americans all Eastern Europe is a province. But for havens sake, please do not call Latvia a part of Russia. It sounds like: somewhere in Guatemala, USA.

Greetings

Marek

Hello Marek,

All appologies to anyone I might have offended.

The "QUOTE" I used was from the seller:

"German WW1 Water-Airplane Kriegsmarine 1914-18
backside : lost Water-Airplane secure somewere russia Latvia (winton, wintou?)"

I believe that the Blue caption is his discription of the fotograf and the Red is his interpretation of what was written on the back. The only change I made was to the lower "r" on his "Russia", I changed ir to a Capitol "R" because I thought it appropriate (I see that the Big "R" didn't make the cut in my previous quotes! My mistake.). I believe that many Countries were part of the Soviet Union for most of the 20th Century until recent years. Last Summer, I bought some school books for my son from a Colledge Student from Estonia, near Latvia I believe.

By the way, I live in Podunk, USA.... I think that "Podunk" means "The Spot In The Road Where The Cow Rellieved It's Self"! Not real sure about that.

Maybe one of our fluent Deutsche Grammatarians can elaborate on "Winton or Wintou". It would be interesting to know where such a rare machine was used in German service.

Best Wishes, Jay

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by Varese2002

Being not an American in 1915 Latvia was surely within the influence of the Russian Czarist empire. Sure this picture is not taken in Latvia or any other Baltic state as we are looking at an event which took place in 1915 or at the latest furst half of 1916.

The list of Marine numbers for seaplanes is an 'older' list which is at variance with the list presented by Peter M. Grosz in Over the Front.

The location of the picture is more likely one of the operational eastern navy stations like Warnemünde, Bug, Wyk auf Rügen, Nest and Putzig near Danzig.

Cheers

Kees

Hi Kees,

Too bad that we haven't updated or corrected the Kriegsmarine Seeflugzeug Nummers Thread. It sure is handy and would be even better if updated as correct information is discovered and also Peter M.Grosz probably already has done all that is needed.

Cheers, Jay

['14-'18aviationcollector]

Hi Jay,

the seller didn't give very much information. Here's the URL:

German WWI Biplane Crashed into Harbor Basin Photo - eBay (item 110367287740 end time Mar-28-09 16:21:44 PDT)

I have often wondered about the flag you have on your profile. I always thought it is the Australian Aboriginal flag. Is it Australian, or is it for all Aboriginal cultures?

Cheers,

David.