Manfred von Richthofen Modeling project.

[CWatson]

Originally Posted by StephenLawson

Head-rests were made from formed plywood. Only the flanged perimeter touched the outer skin of the fuselage.

Interesting I never heard that before. Were they glued on or were fasteners used? Was there anything used to fill or coat the inside?

Are there photos of any Albatros fighters that have had their headrest removed? The mark behind the cockpit sure looks like some type of scaring and appears to be shaped like the outline of a headrest to me.


Thanks again,
CWatson

[Otis Glenn]

Originally Posted by CWatson

Anything with red plus the Roland with black dots on it.

Completed so far all in 1/48:

a. Dr.I 152/17.

b. Red Triplane with early crosses. Some say it is 425/17 or 477/17 since you can't see any #s in the pic I call it MvR's Triplane.

c. Red Triplane with white crossfields,my first build before I had better info.

d. F.I 102/17 factory finish.

e. Albatros DIII red fuselage serial # unknown.

Hope to complete in this lifetime:

a. All red triplane with late style crosses often called 425/17 or 477/17
with no serial# on model.

b. Triplane marked Dr.I 425/17 with factory crossfields and blue undersides
because the wreck of this plane had blue undersides under the red .
It has been debated it had been painted at the factory red, if so red with blue undersides and white crossfields and all stenciling is how I think it would have originaly looked.

c. The same crashed DV with removed headrest mentioned here.

d. His Roland with black dots.

e. Dr.I 114/17.

f. All red Dr.I with the fat strait crosses #s not visible as seen parked next to Wenzl's triplane.

CW

That sounds like an excellent collection. I was originally planning on just two 1/48 Richthofen triplanes but I have finally settled on the combo of 477/17 and 102/17 for this collection after the day's discussions on the 477/17 thread. I also wanted to do a combo of Lothar & Manfred's Dr.Is together. As far as I can tell, the only plane that would work for that considering the limited time Lothar had in his yellow triplane before being shot down would be 152/17. Would this be a good guess, or could 477/17 have been around at that time as well?

Glenn

[Otis Glenn]

Hello everyone:

First, I just wanted to say that I have received TONS on help from everyone regarding this project. Thanks to everyone, you guys are awesome!!!

Now, I have another question to ask... several rather. I would still like to add the Albatros C that Richthofen flew on 26 April 1916 to shoot down a Nieuport with an improvised gun firing over the top wing. However, I have little to no information on the Albatros C series aircraft. I have not been able to obtain a copy of Albatros Publications' Albatros C.III book and I really don't have any other refrences to this aircraft at all. Of course, I'm not even sure if Richthofen actually flew an Albatros C during this flight or if it might have been another aircraft entirely, but this is what most books state he flew for this event. What I do know is that the event took place on 26 April, 1916 while he was a member of Kasta 8. I also know that there may be no documentation of the actual plane he flew.

What I would like to do is build a model of the appropriate aircraft of that unit at that time in the proper overall markings and camouflage. According to A.E. Ferko, Kasta 8 re-equipped with Roland C.II Whalfisch in about May 1916 and that photos of these aircraft show that most of them were overall light blue. I also know that Kasta 8 had the LVG C.II avalible to it as well. If it was an Albatros C.III then the plane might have looked like either of these two images depending on wheather light blue was used or not.



The forward firing MG is entirely speculative on these images, as is everything else.

If anyone has any information on this event and the aircraft Richthofen might have flown for it, I would greatly appreciate the help. Thanks!

Glenn

[JFM]

From what I've been able to determine, K8 didn't fly Albatros C.IIIs until after they went to Russia. At Mont, they flew LVG C.IIs and LFG Roland C.II Walfisch.

Although MvR didn't state which type he flew, it is my belief that he rigged a machine gun to the rollover structure of a Walfisch and was flying this machine when he attacked the Nieuport. This belief is conjecture, based on the convenience of mounting a MG to this structure; photographic provenance of other Walfisch similarly equipped; and performance--no way an LVG was going to catch a Nieuport in the manner described by MvR (a chase from astern and gradual overtaking).

[StephenLawson]

Originally Posted by CWatson

Interesting I never heard that before. Were they glued on or were fasteners used? Was there anything used to fill or coat the inside?

Are there photos of any Albatros fighters that have had their headrest removed? The mark behind the cockpit sure looks like some type of scaring and appears to be shaped like the outline of a headrest to me.


Thanks again, CWatson

Clear photos of the early Alb. D. V types show the would grain of the head rest ply skin. It may have had internally attached formers for integrity of the structucture / shell. I Haven't seen the inside of a Alb. head rest so that is a guess. It would have been attached to fuselage formers by screws (that is why they were so big & long) and the space in-between the screws possibly had some type of wood - glue and the whole affair was varnished in a similar method to the fuselage. The head rest itself was a ply former usually covered in a padded (horse hair or upholstery filler?) leather.

[JFM]

Originally Posted by CWatson

Are there photos of any Albatros fighters that have had their headrest removed? The mark behind the cockpit sure looks like some type of scaring and appears to be shaped like the outline of a headrest to me.


Thanks again,
CWatson

Hello,

You can see the same kind of mark on Menckhoff's D.V in Norman Franks' Osprey Albatros Aces of World War 1, page 18. The mark appears to have a dark edge and is lighter overall than the mark on MvR's 6 July D.V. I do not know if this is because it was lighter or is the result of some photographic anomaly.

As far as MvR's mark, it appears to be the same shade as the wings, tail, etc. It seems to match the red to me, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be darker wood, leftover "bonding agent" or whatever. I've drawn it both ways (darker-hued wood/red); most currently, red.

[CWatson]

Thanks Stephen and JFM for the answers about the headrest. I have the Albatros Aces book and even flipped through it before I asked the question and missed that shot.

As far as the construction of the HR goes no one is sure it did not have a plywood bottom also?

Otis, sorry for the hijack.

Thanks again,
CW

[Otis Glenn]

Originally Posted by CWatson

Otis, sorry for the hijack.

Thanks again,
CW

No problem. I'm learning about this too!

Glenn

[Otis Glenn]

I just wanted to see if I could get some further information on the subject of the aircraft used by Richthofen for his claim on April 25 1916. Although several biographers state that he used an Albatros C, it appears more likely that it was either an LVG C.II or the Roland C.II due to photos of Kasta 8 around that period. I happen to lean towards the Roland myself because this aircraft seems more likely to overtake the Nieuport 11 he shot down, and also because there is a kit of this plane currently in production. JFM pointed me in this direction.

If anyone has any more information on this particular subject, please let me know.

Glenn

[StephenLawson]

I believe that an image of MvR's Roland in in the Albatros Special - monograph titled "Richthofen" by the late A.E. Ferko. At least thats what he captioned it.