Colour of rigging wires - help please!

John McKenzie · 7 May 2009, 03:38 AM

Hi, All, Although nothing is absolute, Iinclude the following (not too clear) photos to show a couple of things related. First, one has to think,WHY would wires actually BE painted? Did they expect the machine to last THAT long.2) Wires (Brunton or RAF wires ) were probably nickle plated (later cad plate ) and 3) All wires in the airframe (except internal wing etc,. ) would have been expected to have had to be adjusted sometimes .Particularly after the machine left the factory after testing or in the field after erection after the machine was unpacked from the crate. All threads would have been greased & paint paint would be kept well away from these areas. Therefore it is unlikely that external wires would have been painted .Also , paint would not readily stick to the plated surface, (unlikely to have been "stoved" at the factory due to subsequent need for packing etc. ) & would soon come off in service anyway. Respect to internal wires, I don't think it very likely that German aircraft had painted wires IMHO ...am open to correction. British machines seem not have painted wires as a general rule, however there is some evidence to show that SOMETIMES in engine bays ten these may have been painted Black? Also in areas directly in (or almost ) contact with fabric, the wires were painted with "dope proof" (lead oxide ) WHITE. ....It could be that wires were generaly given a coat of "Protective" ? grease ? oil? OR whatever & the contact with the solvent in dope may have removed this & made the wire more vulnerable to corrosion ,left out in the open. As an aside note that fittings are NOT always Black...Often these appear a "gray" which could be any colour OR gray??? For same reason as above ,. Fittings in contact with fabrik would be overcoated in dope proof white . .....Petrol tanks (an item which might neen repair in the depos,) would be left in their natural tinned finish..Only external surfaces to be painted (usually after assembly ) to suit camoflage colour. ..Devils own job to remove paint from arround rivets to get the joint clean enough to re solder...Any way there is no point to paint... the plating is excelent protection. ALL paint ADDS WEIGHT,and takes presious time to do...........Museum aircraft often have things like wires &tanks painted because the parts are RUSTED completely due to exposure ove 80 or years. & because they don't have the time or money (or whatever... ) to do otherwise. So don't rely too much on what you see in a museum unless you KNOW it is as original... ALL this is IMHO. Regards JOHN MCKENZIE.

John McKenzie · 7 May 2009, 04:03 AM

John McKenzie · 7 May 2009, 04:06 AM

Russell Smith · 7 May 2009, 04:48 AM

RAF bracing wires and control cables were natural, unpainted steel. If they appear dark or balck in a photo, it may be because you are seeing them against a lighter background.

FWIW, TVAL uses a combination of round and flat steel wires for their cables & bracing wires. They do their homework, so I would go with whatever they're doing:

John McKenzie · 7 May 2009, 07:35 AM

Russell Smith.... Why are you being argumentative..Did you actualy read what I wrote..If so , then can't you see that you are just saying the same thing in a very simplistic way.? . This thread tries to find out the truth on a particular point...I have offered some historical possabilaties from original factory photos...This is NOT about what ANYONE does today. Show us photos of 1914..1918 to support any opinion you have.

Russell Smith · 7 May 2009, 07:46 AM

Old Hand - the question is, why are you being so defensive???

I'm NOT arguing with you. I'm simply stating what I have seen. Am I not allowed to do that? I certainly don't think that I should personally attacked for doing so. WHERE did you get the idea that I was trying to argue with you, for cryin' out loud??

Scrumpydog Asked a question. I was trying to help the guy out. Seeing TVAL is building their aircraft to the original specifications, I think its a perfectly valid point to bring up.

SHEEESH!

John McKenzie · 7 May 2009, 09:54 AM

Dear Russell , Please explain to us all the intended meaning at the end of your last posting of ......WTF ????? ....... I do hope you are not resorting to OBSCENITIES on this forum......... Bad form old boy,.Don't you know

..........friendly regards John

Russell Smith · 7 May 2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Hand

Dear Russell , Please explain to us all the intended meaning at the end of your last posting of ......WTF ????? ....... I do hope you are not resorting to OBSCENITIES on this forum......... Bad form old boy,.Don't you know

..........friendly regards John

I don't think it needs any explaining, John. I think everyone here knows what I meant by that. Bad form - perhaps. Obscenity - no. That is why I kept it at an acronym rather than use the full blown phrase.

My apologies to everyone else if they found that offensive.

Now, back to the original point. I was and still am perplexed as to why you blindsided me the way you did. Could you please explain that? If it was simply a mistake on your part, then that is fine. I'd be lying if I said I've never made the same mistake. However, I would at least appreciate it if you would acknowledge that.

scrumpydog · 7 May 2009, 10:37 AM

That all makes very good sense - thanks.

I think that Brit planes DID have Japanned wires from about late 1917, because there was a point to it - the mixture included amongst other things ashphalt, so protected the wires from rust, and I've seen several references to the practice, though none that I would consider necessarily of the status to consider conclusive.

Oh well... sort of greyish/blackish/whitish colour I guess then will have to do lol!

scrumpydog · 7 May 2009, 10:50 AM

Also, thinking out loud so to speak, if the practice began in late 1917 it's pretty unlikely to have been universally implemented across all factories, for all aircraft, at the same time. And the number of Brit WW1 museum or replica planes you see with black painted/japanned/whatever wires, it's hard to believe theyve all got it wrong?

But if the above is true, some machines even of the same type and same date from different factories would have had steel untreated wires, some Japanned. So museums/replica builders could be 'right' whatever they did I guess. Re the RE8 I originally commented on, we know the IWM example was one of the last made, and presumably its wires will be 'as original' as they would have had the originals in the crate from Day 1; so not surprising they would be blackened if the above is true.

Why couldn't these people have spared a thought for modellors 90 years on, and kept proper records of all this