Colour of rigging wires - help please!

John McKenzie · 7 May 2009, 11:36 AM

Russell, Lets call a halt to all this now

Scrumplydog..RE8 @ IWM was restored 1977 approx. It had been on show at various times prior to that date ..at some time bewfore '77 the fabrik was removed from fuselage LH side , at this time (pre '77) the wires appeare "light colour...ie either white or natural finish ,though difficult to say with any certainty. Even then they were 60 years old. How the machine had been cared for in the intervening years is not known, especially 1939/45. Anyway here's a copy of a photo during 1977 ..? dope proof white, perhaps ? Regards JOHN McKENZIE. P.S. Surely one of the photo collections gents has some good FACTORY photos ??

John McKenzie · 7 May 2009, 11:38 AM

scrumpydog · 7 May 2009, 01:23 PM

Now that's interesting - but would the exterior wires be the same as the interior wires I wonder!

Oh well, at least I don't feel such an idiot for not knowing !!! Well I'm doing them in grey, because it's easiest and seems like nobody can prove me wrong

And hey guys, you were both trying to help me and I'm very grateful, please kiss and make up cos I'm feeling bad at causing a rift now!

John McKenzie · 7 May 2009, 06:21 PM

Hi Scrumpydog, As far as I know, it is most usual for all external wires to be left natural, As I said before, there is not much of a reason t5o faint them. All this is for British and German .Also most French aeroplanes..However I have no knowledge of the Caudron G IV @ Smithsonian so can't say there. You'd have to get that from maybe someone who knows its history, or specialises in that type. The early "raf " wires were in high tensile steel Spec S97 ,Idid talk to the guy from Bruntons when he visited here quite some time ago but as all the wires now are "stainless steel " (sic),which has replaced cad,. plated type,and no longer made by them, the subject of "old type" wires didn't arise. They make the point that They invented them & not RAF. However,whatever the truth, they were soon refered to raf wires in all specs etc,. I have never seen or have knowledge of any "painted" external raf wires. BTW ..Nickel plate (dull/clear pas,. )is a sort of light silvery/grey.You can still see much of it about in every day items. Hope this all covers all your questions..can't add much more anyway.. Regards JOHN.McKENZIE.

(off to bed now! )

LewisS · 15 May 2009, 07:16 PM

I would suggest, at least with the double butted or flatted drawn wires that they are left their natural color. The lovely replica Sopwith Camel at Evergreen in McMinnville in Oregon, has a natural, almost blue steel coloring to it's main wing rigging. I hate to call these "wires" as the later higher performance planes did not use multi strand wires, but used something similar to really long, high strength, heavy gauge bicycle spokes with double threaded ends.

BLOWHARD · 15 May 2009, 08:20 PM

Not like this makes things clearer but from what I've seen of the pictures of the restored Brit planes posted above, they are almost certainly painted silver, not bare metal.
Plus, restored, and especially flight worthy aircraft are never proof of correctness. They may be 100% correct, but then again...you just can't be certain of anything restored.
I can see the later Brit wires, that weren't really wires, could be plated. But twisted wire plated? That sounds weird.
It's an interesting question. I wish we had more than conjecture and restorations to go on. Aren't there any original factory documents that answer the question?

scrumpydog · 16 May 2009, 02:43 AM

Well, this is making me feel MUCH less stupid for not knowing this!!

I've emailed the guy who made these models -

Blue Max 1/48 Avro 504K, by Tom Cleaver

as he clearly builds to a good standard and seems sure that Japanned rigging was used, to ask him what his source for the info is. If I get a reply I'll post it here!

But the post above does raise an interesting point. The 'wires' used on some later WW1 planes, which are indeed more like bicycle spokes, would seem much more likely to be painted with something protective than just plain 'wires', if only because its more probable the 'paint' would stay in place and not just flake off as it could be evenly applied. Maybe there's a clue there...

scrumpydog · 17 May 2009, 11:20 PM

Re above - I had a reply, and he says he doesn't really know either.

Guess he just read it somewhere as I did. I have emailed the Vintage Aviator (replica builders), who have an SE5 with neutral wires, and an RE8 with black, to see what if anything they based this on! Likewise will post any reply.