Breguet's ID Challenge #600

Dave_Kent · 6 July 2009, 06:21 AM

A merry chase indeed, and an interesting result.

Now I would NEVER even think to question my Liege, or Bruce, but I must admit to not being fully convinced.

At that time, the RNAS had two versions of the G W Type XV in service, both at, or having been at, Chingford.

The earlier type XV, which had no nacelle, and the later, ‘Type 1600’ version that had a nacelle. It seems likely to me that these would have been referred to as the ‘G W pusher’ and the ‘G W nacelle pusher’ as an easy way to distinguish the two variants.

I also wonder about the photo posted by Bruno identified as 3156. I thought all type XVs acquired by the RNAS after 1600 followed that pattern. When I get home I’ll pull the books again.

As for the Challenge machine, a question, Is the original photo as posted with no (visible to me) national markings?

Varese2002 · 6 July 2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breguet

--- On Page 258 Bruce refers to these machines and what is and isn't known about them. ----

I checked p. 258 of J,M, Bruce - The aeroplanes of the Royal Flying Corps (Military Wing). To quote another passage from his description of the Grahame-White Pusher Biplane (no picture given by J.M. Bruce) -

Quote:

The mainplanes, tailplane, elevators and undercarriage strongly resembled those of the Type VIIc, but the rudder was taller, parallelogram-shaped and of higher aspect ratio ....

The Grahame-White Popular Passenger Biplane Type VIIc is described on page 255 of the same book (with picture), clearly it does not resemble the machine presented in Challenge #600

I rest it at this, otherwise I would be rightly called a nuisance.

Kees

Breguet · 6 July 2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_Kent

As for the Challenge machine, a question, Is the original photo as posted with no (visible to me) national markings?

Yes the photo shows no national markings.

As for the quotation by Bruce I suppose we must remember this is to do with RFC machines and not RNAS (who seemed to do what they liked a bit more) - in the end we can only surmise. Still, nothing like a bit of controversy

.

stenoyab · 8 July 2009, 02:54 PM

Please forgive me for adding to this already long thread.

I've attached a photo I have of what I think is RFC GW XV, which does not match the challenge plane.

The nacelle is marked with the large initials, GW, which I assume are Grahame White.

So is the challenge plane a very late production XV?

Does there exist any photographic evidence for all the different XV pushers made by the GW company?

Breguet · 8 July 2009, 03:20 PM

Lovely picture! Do you know where it was taken?

Unfortunately the challenge machine is RNAS NOT RFC and we have established that it is definitely not a type XV.

As to your last question if I could rephrase it:

Does there exist any photographic evidence for all the different pushers made by the GW company?

I wish there was and that we could get our hands on it then we could put this to rest.

At the moment the evidence (I feel) leans more towards an HF 27 but I also believe there is still enough of a doubt to leave it uncalled.

Rbailey · 8 July 2009, 06:08 PM

Actually, i don't think the last picture is a GW XV, but a Farman M.F. 7 Longhorn. There are struts leading to a forward elevator that would not have been on a nacelled XV

Breguet · 8 July 2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rbailey

Actually, i don't think the last picture is a GW XV, but a Farman M.F. 7 Longhorn. There are struts leading to a forward elevator that would not have been on a nacelled XV

Listen to that man!

AROTH · 8 July 2009, 08:43 PM

Heck, what about the photo plane ?

Flamingo · 10 July 2009, 09:43 AM

Found two pictures of Farman HF 27 in Africa showing the nacelle

and the rudder like the challenge machine

Maybe this is of interest.

Stig Jarlevik · 10 July 2009, 11:13 AM

Sorry Breguet

Your flying shot is NOT a GW XV or GW nacelle pusher. There are plenty of shots of RNAS GW XV and not a single one resembles the one you have shown. The aircraft however is a striking look-a-like of the HF 27 model, down to the last detail visible on the photo. If the intention is that someone in RNAS took a GW XV and rebuilt it to look like a HF 27 just for the fun of it, I would say forget it, since that does not sound very plausible to me.

Whoever originally captioned the photo did it to my thinking wrong.

It has happened before and will happen again

Cheers
Stig