nightfighter armament

SteveH · 28 June 2009, 11:57 AM

Hi, Been trawling the archives looking at night time operations. It struck me that most of the British night fighters ended up with overwing Lewis' as this mounting appears to have had the least affect on the pilot's night vision. There seems to be less material on German fighter ops but there are several references to Albatros DV's being used and Jasta 73's ops seem to me to be during the Fokker DVII phase. Correct me if I'm wrong but I was wondering what steps the Germans took to eliminate gun flash from the twin LMG's used on aircraft such as these that were used on night ops. Regards, Steve

SteveH · 1 August 2009, 05:32 PM

Hi All, After a months deafening silence some further thoughts on the subject.

The first Gotha shot down by a Home Defence Camel saw the pilot, Murlis Green, temporarily blinded by the muzzle flash from his twin Vickers. This apparently led to the adoption of the overwing Lewis as the night fighters main armament. The Camel's successor was the Snipe which was equipped with twin Vickers. Presumably they would have replaced the Camels in the HD squadrons. I have the Windsock Datafile and I'm not aware of any Lewis gun installations intended for such nightfighters. I have read somewhere that the Vickers had flash suppressors fitted, a cone like device fitted to the end of the muzzle. Were they any good and did the Germans try out similar devices? The reason I ask is because the first generation of post war RAF fighters which were intended to perform at day and night, the Woodcock, Grebe and Gamecock all had their Vickers mounted low on the fuselage sides. The exception was the Siskin. Even the Bulldog had fuselage mounted guns suggesting that muzzle flash remained a serious issue.

As far as the Germans are concerned machines such as the Pfalz D111 with enclosed guns would seem a better option? The Austro Hungarian tendancy to long blast tubes appears interesting. Would this work as a means of suppressing the flash? Finally, what type of machine did Fritz Anders use when he downed those French night bombers?

Just some last thoughts on an obscure subject. Anybody got any ideas? Regards, SteveH

Uhlan · 3 August 2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveH

Hi All, After a months deafening silence some further thoughts on the subject.

The first Gotha shot down by a Home Defence Camel saw the pilot, Murlis Green, temporarily blinded by the muzzle flash from his twin Vickers. This apparently led to the adoption of the overwing Lewis as the night fighters main armament. The Camel's successor was the Snipe which was equipped with twin Vickers. Presumably they would have replaced the Camels in the HD squadrons. I have the Windsock Datafile and I'm not aware of any Lewis gun installations intended for such nightfighters. I have read somewhere that the Vickers had flash suppressors fitted, a cone like device fitted to the end of the muzzle. Were they any good and did the Germans try out similar devices? The reason I ask is because the first generation of post war RAF fighters which were intended to perform at day and night, the Woodcock, Grebe and Gamecock all had their Vickers mounted low on the fuselage sides. The exception was the Siskin. Even the Bulldog had fuselage mounted guns suggesting that muzzle flash remained a serious issue.

As far as the Germans are concerned machines such as the Pfalz D111 with enclosed guns would seem a better option? The Austro Hungarian tendancy to long blast tubes appears interesting. Would this work as a means of suppressing the flash? Finally, what type of machine did Fritz Anders use when he downed those French night bombers?

Just some last thoughts on an obscure subject. Anybody got any ideas? Regards, SteveH

I have also been trying to research this subject and there is very little information available. I did find a book "History of the German Night Fighter Force 1917-1945" by Gebhard Aders. It contains a grand total of one chapter, six pages of text, on German night fighters of WWI. It isn't very much but it makes an interesting reading. He gives a summary of their tactics and mentions night kills by Jasta 4, 24, 73 and 74. I have also read that two seater units flying Halberstadt and Hannover Cl type two seaters were used for night fighting. Aders mentions Schlasta 16 flying numerous night interceptions. There is an interesting footnote on the subject of German two-seaters being used for night fighting. It is a photo in the Windsock Mini Datafile 16 "German Observers' Guns showing a MG14 Parabellum gun with a searchlight attached. Whether it was ever used operationally is anybody's guess.