Morane Saulnier A.I Type 30

[OldSkyKnight]

I'd appreciate any help obtaining more information about the plane in this photograph. The photo is of my wife's grandfather, Sgt Curley, who served with the 372nd Aero Squadron, American Expeditionary Forces, near Issoudun, France in 1919. He went to flight school in Texas and then in France. This appears to be a Morane Saulnier A.I, type 30. There are no guns.
The tail codes are a mystery to me, and I would like to understand them. The numbers don't show well against the French colors in this black and white photo. I've included a blow up of the tail. It looks like it says MoS 39. Is that the manufacturer's number? Then below that Type 30. It's possible here are more numbers or letters to the right. Then some designations: PC 40(?) and PU 50(?). I have no idea what these mean, but would like to know.
Finally, about the photo. Were such photos a standard routine? Was it customary to take a photo of the pilot for the folks at home or for identification in case of a mishap during training? Sgt Curley returned home, obviously, or my lovely wife would never have come along.
Thanks to all of you in advance and a special thanks to Eric for suggesting this forum!

[Varese2002]

The photo shows one of the 51 Morane Saulnier MoS 30 single seat trainers procured by the A.E.F and used in Issudoun.

The designation Morane Saulnier Type AI is the factory registration of M-S. When a machine was accepted by the S.T.Aé (Section Technique de l'Aeronautique) a registration was awarded, in this case MoS 27 (single machinegun), MoS 29 (twin machinegun) and (later) MoS 30 (single seat trainer).

The MoS 27 and 29 were not very succesfull as a fighter and were relatively short at the front.

The registrations on the fin -

• first line - MoS 35?

• second line - 30

• third line PC - 40?

• fourth line PU - 90?

The first line (last digit not absolutely clear, but can be 35) does not relate to the S./T.Aé designation MoS 30. May be an Morane Saulnier escadrille designation

The second line (30) hints at least at the MoS 30 registration of the machine.

The third and fourth line give information about different weights. My best bets are PC [Poids de combustible - Weight of fuel] and PU [Poids Utile - Usuable weight]. I rely on the French Forum members to correct this

Only a partial answer, I am afraid. Nice picture though. There was sure no standard routine AFAIK to photograph the training pilot and the plane. In Germany it was for instance standard to photograph all machines received for evaluation at Adlershof. At least two pictures, side, front. But that could be different for British, French and US.

Cheers

Kees

Sources: James C. Fahey. U.S.Army aircraft (heavier-than-air) 1908-1946.

[OldSkyKnight]

Varese2002
Thank you for writing back. You've provided some interesting information. I had no idea what the PC and PU might have been.
The top line might very well be MoS 35 rather than MoS 39. It's hard to see if any more numbers follow in the dark stripe.
The second line definitely appears to be the type designation. I've seen a reference to a Type 30.E.1, but again it's hard to see if there are more numbers in the dark stripe. It's fascinating to learn that 51 were made and delivered to that particular field!
Thanks again!
Old Sky Knight

[Froggy]

Bonsoir

The first line give serial number of the MoS + number
second line type of Mos (here 30)
third line text in french ' Charge maximum' (not visible here)
fourth line PC 40K (poids combustible)
fifth line PU 90 K (poids utile)

YouTube - Morane AI

YouTube - Morane AI

cordialement
Bruno

[Varese2002]

Hi Bruno, just one question about the first line on the rudder. As I understand it now, this number identifies the production machine within the MoS 30. Is it correct that this in then the 35th produced example of the MoS 30 ?

Cheers

Kees

[Froggy]

Originally Posted by Varese2002

Hi Bruno, just one question about the first line on the rudder. As I understand it now, this number identifies the production machine within the MoS 30. Is it correct that this in then the 35th produced example of the MoS 30 ?

Cheers

Kees

Yes KEES probably but I cannot confirm that
The best manner should be find another photo of a Mos at Issoudun

Cordialement
Bruno

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by OldSkyKnight

---
The second line definitely appears to be the type designation. I've seen a reference to a Type 30.E.1, but again it's hard to see if there are more numbers in the dark stripe. ----

French planes were at least in 1917 / 1918 also classified / coded for use, so E stood for École (Training) and the '1' defined it as a single seat training plane (classification E 1). E 2 was then the classification for a two-seat trainer.

The exact designation of the S.T.Aé is MoS 30, not Type 30. In official aviation militaire communication the S.T.Aé designation was used.

Kees

[Chock]

That particular type was bought by the US (I think they bought about 30 or so of them) for use as a 'pursuit trainer' - i.e. something more advanced for fledgling pilots to practice on, hence the lack of armaments.

With regard to the lettering, often there are letters on the tails of French WW1 aircraft relating to the kind of guns fitted, but obviously this does not show up where it is an unarmed trainer.

It is conceivable that such types might have been used for unarmed reconnaissance, since they would not need any guns for that and the parasol wing would certainly lend itself to observing the ground, offering as it does an unobstructed view downwards, but that type's purpose was certainly intended as an advanced fighter trainer in US hands. The parasol configuration tends to lend itself to good stability - a desirable feature in a training plane - since the fuselage acts a bit like a pendulum weight, although apparently not all Morane Parasols were easy to fly.

As far as photos of pilots in front of aircraft goes, there is invariably a lot of standing about doing very little on airfields, so it is only natural that people would take pictures of their squadron buddies in front of aircraft at such times. Although one has to bear in mind that these aircraft were state of the art weapons back then, sometimes with 'secret' devices on them, so such activity could occasionally be frowned upon. This is why you tend to see pilots stood in front of less potent types, rather than what would have been the latest 'hot stuff' at the time, lest the censors take a dim view of things when including such pictures with a letter home.

Some pilots could be a little superstitious about photos, whereas others were not. For example, there was a general superstition among many aviators with regard to photographs showing off damage on their aircraft upon returning to base - you do occasionally see such pictures, invariably with the pilot pointing at the damage and smiling, but many pilots did not like doing that sort of thing, presumably regarding it as tempting fate in some way.

Al

[OldSkyKnight]

Kees and Bruno,
Having spent hours tracking down information about other planes, it is a treat to have two knowledgeable persons contributing details about a plane that actually has some family history.
The video clip of the plane is wonderful. What a sound!
I've found still photos of that particular plane and studied the tail markings.
http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/domeric_barbot/ms_type_a1/
Now the numbers and letters make sense to me. Thank you both!
Warm regards,
Art

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Hi Varese2002:
I had thought that E meant Etainement, training??
Blue skies,
Dan-San