Siemens-Schuckert D. III/IV in Switzerland

[YavorD]

Originally Posted by Peter_T1958

.... Does that mean 8344/17 flown by Arnold Eger was a D. III and 1618/18 flown by Heinrich DEMBOWSKY was eventually a D.IV? ...

From Windsock Datafile 29 and some other sources:

• Both 8344/17 and 1618/18 were D.III.
• SSW D.III 8344/17 was reported as dispatched to JG III on 16 March 1918.
• SSW D.III 1618/18 was reported as dispatched to JG II on 13 May 1918.
• Both machines were modified at some stage and to some extent before been delivered to Kest 5.

Regards,
Yavor

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Hello Yavor:
SSW D.III 3000/18 to 3026/18. The SSW D.IVcommenced with D.3027/18 to D.3056/18.
Blue skies Yavor,
Dan-San

[YavorD]

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

Hello Yavor:
SSW D.III 3000/18 to 3026/18. The SSW D.IVcommenced with D.3027/18 to D.3056/18.
...

Hi, Dan-San!
In my notes (mostly from Windsock Datafile and the old Profile) I have an order for 50 SSW D.III on 23 March 1918, revised on 8 June 1918 to 30 D.III and 20 D.IV, actual production as follows.

• SSW D.III 3007:3026/18;
• SSW D.IV 3027:3036/18;
• SSW D.III 3037:3046/18 (no photo evidence known to me);
• SSW D.IV 3047:3056/18.

According to my notes, D.3000:3007/18 were LFG Roland D prototypes (including D.IX, D.XIII, XIV, XV), contract from April 1918 (source: Albatros Experimentals, Windsock Datafile Special; also several articles about LFG Ds).

Regards,
Yavor

[Peter_T1958]

Ok, what I have until now is …

1) A contemporaneous Swiss Army’s internal report says , three aircraft
landed at Rapperswil on 13.11.18. One of them was
Fritz Beckhardt
(D.III; 8356/1917)



2) The same army report recorded two other Siemens-Schuckerts, both
landed at Schaffhausen on the same day, flown by

Heinrich DEMBOWSKY
(D.III; 1618/18),
and
Arnold EGER
(D.III; 8344/17)




Pilot Lange does still not fit in this list, as I tend to trust the Swiss Army report, unless there had been more than three SSW that day.
Why should Swiss authorities make it up?

But at least it seems, that newer documents, that recorded two SSW D.III’s and one SSW D.IV, must be wrong.

What I am doing now is to search in local archives, i.e. local newspapers.
I am in contact with local historians and Swiss aviation experts too. Hope I will be able to find some new stuff…


Perhaps about these two:


???


???

[Peter_T1958]

Hello all,

Today I spent some time in the local ‘Stadtarchiv’ , studying contemporaneous newspapers.

Here the poor result:

Schaffhauser Intelligenzblatt 57. Jahrgang
Donnerstag 14. November

- Fremde Flieger. Gestern um die Mittagsstunde kamen eine ganze Anzahl deutscher Flieger aus nördlicher Richtung angeflogen. Zwei davon landeten beim Schützenhaus, wobei das eine Flugzeug einen kleinen Unfall erlitt. Es fuhr gegen die Hecke der Pumpstation und wurde durch die Wucht des Aufpralls aufgestellt. Die Flugzeuge wurden durch unsere Truppen beschossen und erhielten einige Treffer. Wie man vernimmt, seien noch eine grössere Anzahl solcher Gäste zu erwarten und zwar sollen es deutsche aristokratische Flüchtlinge sein, die sich ihres Lebens nicht mehr sicher fühlen oder ihre Flugzeuge nicht den Franzosen ausliefern wollen.

Brief summary:
Two aircraft landed near the clubhaus and one of them made a light accident. It turned over as it hit the surraundig hedge. They had come under fire from our troops and cought some hits.
(Hope you understand my English)

[Peter_T1958]

Hello gents

I dug out eight (!) more pictures of the two SSW D.III that landed in Schaffhausen in 1918. The staff of the “Staatsarchiv” will provide me with betterscans in the next few weeks.







Unfortunately those original photographs were of rather poor quality so there will be no new information i.e. about the numbers or if there had been one or two Totenkopf-marked D.III’s.
But …
The whole story will be enlightet in the January issue of “Cockpit” by Hans-Heiri Stapfer.
I have to wait until he has published his article, but will inform you as soon as possible.

Cheers, Peter

[crankcase]

Originally Posted by Peter_T1958

Hello all,

Today I spent some time in the local ‘Stadtarchiv’ , studying contemporaneous newspapers.

Here the poor result:



Brief summary:
Two aircraft landed near the clubhaus and one of them made a light accident. It turned over as it hit the surraundig hedge. They had come under fire from our troops and cought some hits.
(Hope you understand my English)

Thanks, Peter, interesting.
The article mentions that more German planes were expected, piloted by German aristocrats fearing for their lives or wanting to avoid handing over their planes to the French!
marc

[Gregvan]

Hello Peter,

Thank you so much for that additional information and those VERY interesting photos!! Terrific!

Yes, by all means, please post better scans if they should become available - and the other photos you mentioned. I also look forward to hearing the 'whole' story from the "Cockpit" article as well.

Here is a very poor photo of Fritz Beckhardt in the swastika-marked SSW usually associated with him. It comes from the cover of Jüdische Flieger im Weltkrieg, as mentioned in other threads on this forum.



Thanks again.

Greg

[mikec]

Thanks for posting the extra information, Peter.

Do you know if there are likely to be similar any newspaper articles and photos for the 3 aircraft that landed at Rapperswil on November 13th, particularly anything that relates to my grandfather‘s, [Beckhardt’s], SSW?

Is any new info on this likely to turn up in the upcoming "Cockpit" article you mentioned?

Mike.

[Peter_T1958]

In regard to the upcoming article, I still don't want to forestall anything, but what confuses me, is the number associated with Beckhardt’s machine: 8340/17.
I am not really interested in Beckhardt’s SSW D.III as it landed in Rapperswil. (BTW: Absolute impossible to do a model with a swastika in Switzerland today!!!)
Nevertheless that classification in Swiss archives lead to the following list:

8340/17 Beckhardt
8344/17 Eger
8356/17 Lange*
1618/18 Dembrowsky

* Unfortunately it is not recorded in Swiss achives, where Lange landed.

For me it seems quite possible that there were two SSW's with "Totenkopf" in Switzerland those days: Eger and Lange.

Still waiting for better scans 
Peter