Breguet's aircraft ID challenge #713

[Varese2002]

Breguet's aircraft ID challenge #713



A full point for the correct and complete identification of this machine. Do try to identify the trees (specialty of FokkerJ ), but I cannot allot any extra points as it is against the rules .....

Have a good time

Kees

The score at the start of Challenge #713

129.90 Varese2002 ¤¤
93.00 Dave_Kent ¤
81.20 Rbailey ¤
33.30 Cruze ¤
29.70 richard B ¤
24.70 Aquilius
21.20 YavorD
20.80 Lodzermensch
20.35 Froggy
15.90 Flamingo
13.80 Rod Filan
10.45 GregE
09.50 matte_kudasai
09.00 Breguet
08.70 Dan-San
08.40 JohnMacG
07.70 EdStevens
07.60 trp81
07.30 Patrick
07.10 Colin A. Owers
06.70 Ampovandak
06.70 Berman
06.10 joegertler
06.00 Eric Goedkoop
05.90 Doc
05.70 AROTH
05.70 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger
05.60 ercoupepilot
05.30 Crimso
05.30 Der Grüne Flieger
05.20 Maze
05.20 Gilles
05.10 bshatzer
05.00 Tom L..........................have to wait 12 hours

04.70 dpolglaze........................ may start immediately
04.40 Ross Moorhouse
04.30 edmondthieffry
04.20 Rufe
04.00 greenknight
04.00 sobrien
03.90 Brad
03.00 SCMc
02.50 Gregoire
02.50 Rexee
02.10 Crankcase
02.00 austin08
02.00 Rickenbaron
01.70 Kilian
01.60 airplane176
01.60 sergio_vitalio
01.50 Albatros_Ace
01.30 Cigogne
01.30 ckingh5
01.25 Ermeio Congratulations
01.20 Ransom E. Olds
01.00 Catfish
01.00 Cliff
01.00 cubsfan4life
01.00 gregorydquist
01.00 Luf-Rick
01.00 Mike Westorp
01.00 paolomiana
01.00 Peter Zambori
01.00 rammjaeger
01.00 SL DIII
01.00 Tripehound
00.90 Stig Jarlevik
00.80 Machinbird
00.80 Mad Mac
00.80 tbstreet
00.80 toxisch
00.60 Sreiko
00.50 ’14-‘18aviationcollector
00.50 Martin Irvine
00.40 Vilkata
00.30 albapfalzd30
00.30 Miroslav Pokorny
00.30 Nieuport14
00.20 Paul_J._Fisher

Previous Breguet Challenges can be found here

Rules

The thread title must be "Bréguet's aircraft ID challenge #......"
The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
The completed aircraft must have been either; designed, built or have left the ground during the '14-'18 period and be identifiable by the poster.
The photo must show the whole aircraft - from whatever angle, or at least 2 views of a 3 view drawing (photo by preference).
Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified (always check the list at Aeroplanes 1914 - 1918* -* Breguet's Aircraft Challenge* -- when in doubt !).
If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of an aircraft for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the aircraft is submitted.
Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they become an ACE. Once they become an ACE they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
If an ace gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
The final arbiter in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

[SCMc]

Hi Kees,

Forgive me for asking, but are you sure this one qualifies. It looks like it should be about 5 years too early. Either way, it is an interesting entry.

Steve

[Varese2002]

Do not worry Steve, I was also somewhat surprised. Actually this is about midway the 1914-18 timespan. Of course I mean the machine, not the trees

Cheers

Kees

[Rbailey]

Somewhere around 1916? Built then or just survived till then? If the former, I would guess that it was a home-built machine that comes from a country that was not involved in the war - maybe US. It seems to have a lot of obsolete features, suggesting a designer who was either eccentric or out of touch with developments.

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Rbailey

Somewhere around 1916? Built then or just survived till then? If the former, I would guess that it was a home-built machine that comes from a country that was not involved in the war - maybe US. It seems to have a lot of obsolete features, suggesting a designer who was either eccentric or out of touch with developments.

Dating is right, but I don't think you can conclude from the appearance or construction from the machine that the designer / builder was 'either eccentric or out of touch with developments'

As I gave away the machine is dated as 1916 and the country was (not yet) at war at that time .... The designer had already built other aeroplanes before this one, of different configiurations .......

Cheers

Kees

[ckingh5]

The 1912 Loening-Miller carried a rudder that looked very similar as did most of the aircraft of Sturtevant Aviation, which began producing aircraft around 1916 whose Vice President was one Grover Loening. The Challenge aircraft has mid-bay ailerons a feature found on many Curtiss aircraft at whose facility the Loeing-Miller was constructed. Noe of the above had an open framework fuselage or the "dove'tail" horizontal stabilizer. Soooooo I'll say we are looking at a Grover Loening design constructed San Diego (possible by Curtiss) prior to Loening's recruitment to work at Sturtevant.

As to trees, my ScoutMaster skills would require a better image of the leaves and possibly the bark to make an educated guess.

Chris

[Varese2002]

Unfortunately Chris your puzzle does not fit, no design of the brilliant Grover Loening. As you said this machine still has an 'open' fuselage. Sure the trees are USA species 'somewhere' in that big country.

Have a good time

Kees

[Aquilius]

Very little to find here. And triangular bodies were not the most common in the US.

But can this be the Allinio Biplane, that Peter Allinio flew at the Christofferson Field at Redwood City, CA?
It was errected in 1916 and was powered by 40 hp Hall-Scott 4-cylinder inline.

I haven't seen a picture but Allinio had built a pusher before.



Cheers

Aquilius

[Varese2002]

Thanks Aquilius for bringing in the 1916 Alliano Biplane, I never heard of the machine and the man. Interesting page can be found here. There is a picture of a Bristol Fighter like Limousine which is given as an Alliano plane.

But coming back to basics this is not an Alliano plane.

I will see if I can give a little hint within a few hours, eating is first on the porject.

Cheers

Kees

[Aquilius]

The Bristol Fighter conversion was built by Allinio (not Alliano) in 1928 out of a surplus war-machine. His former passenger-aicraft concepts he could not built.
The 1916 biplane I haven't seen yet.



Cheers

Aquilius