Ammo storage in WW1 aircraft

[Spartan]

As I was looking for some information on the WW1 aircraft, i found this forum. It gave me more detailed knowledge on the topic. But the one thing, that I couldn't find, is the layout of ammunition in aircraft like Nieuport 17, Sopwith Pup and later models of SPAD VII. In Sopwith there is a drum for empty belt, and a box for ammo. Is there another drum with ammo belt filled with rounds coiled around it inside this box, or it is just ammo belt laid down layer by layer on the bottom of the box? (I wonder if it wouldn't cause jams with soft belt of that period, that could twist when flying with every attitude possible during dogfights). In later SPADs VII, with disintegrating belt, there seems to be the box as well. Is it true? And finally I couldn't find any reliable info concerning this system Nieuport 17, only that there is also an empty belt drum, like in Pup, but nothing about ammo storage. I would appreciate any comments, information, images, if possible.

Konrad

[tcrean7828]

Originally Posted by Spartan

As I was looking for some information on the WW1 aircraft, i found this forum. It gave me more detailed knowledge on the topic. But the one thing, that I couldn't find, is the layout of ammunition in aircraft like Nieuport 17, Sopwith Pup and later models of SPAD VII. In Sopwith there is a drum for empty belt, and a box for ammo. Is there another drum with ammo belt filled with rounds coiled around it inside this box, or it is just ammo belt laid down layer by layer on the bottom of the box? (I wonder if it wouldn't cause jams with soft belt of that period, that could twist when flying with every attitude possible during dogfights). In later SPADs VII, with disintegrating belt, there seems to be the box as well. Is it true? And finally I couldn't find any reliable info concerning this system Nieuport 17, only that there is also an empty belt drum, like in Pup, but nothing about ammo storage. I would appreciate any comments, information, images, if possible.

Konrad

Mate,
Welcome to the flagship of the Aerodrome - where the greatest minds on the planet get together and talk about their favorite subject - WW1.

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

P.S. Werner Voss and Kurt Wolff fan here.

[John McKenzie]

Early S7's had the live ammo wound on a big spun Ally' reel , appx central below the MG & above the pilots legs . This fed up to the Vickers on its right side .
There was an Exit shoot on the left , that carried the empty belt through the reqd 90 deg , towards the belt take up reel back on the LH side of the fuselage .

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by John McKenzie

Early S7's had the live ammo wound on a big spun Ally' reel , appx central below the MG & above the pilots legs . This fed up to the Vickers on its right side .
There was an Exit shoot on the left , that carried the empty belt through the reqd 90 deg , towards the belt take up reel back on the LH side of the fuselage .

I saw the photo of this system. And I've heard, that it was prone to jamming, so then they used the disintegrating belt. And with the new system the empty cartridges were just discarded overboard. But was the belt still coiled on a single drum, or just laid down in the box? (I wonder if the simple box with the belt in it would be enough to prevent it from getting tangled when the aircraft still changes it's attitude during dogfight and the belt is changing it's layout all the time)

Konrad

[Ransom E. Olds]

The very great advantage of the loaded belt being laid in flat rows in a box versus wound around a spool is that space use is much more efficient. In an SE5 the spool would be so small the number of cartridges available would be only a fraction of that stored in flat rows in a box. Ransom

[Spartan]

So S.E.5 did have a spool. Does anyone know something about Nieuport 17, Pup, and later models (with disintegrating belt) of SPAD VII?

Konrad

[Ransom E. Olds]

Spartan: No, I meant that if the SE5 had had a circular spool for the cartridges the ammunition capacity would have been less than with the loaded belt laid in rows in a box. In a narrow fuselage the drum or spool would not permit a large number of cartridges to be carried. In the Nieuport and the Spad the fuselage forward of the pilot is relatively broad. Ransom

[RAF56_Ball]

RFC/RAF Pups with Vickers had the box with bullets just layed in, fed via cloth belt to a spool that wound up the emptied belt for reuse. Why? Because it seemed like a good idea at the time.
The maneuvering of the plane would not cause them to significantly move, as the plane was usually in positive 'G' (even while rolling) and especially while firing.
Pup's with Lewis guns (early RNAS mostly) had drums, but have not seen anything as to how stored in the cockpit.
For most allied, flat boxes for Vickers and drums for Lewis was pretty standard. SE-5 series had one Lewis drum container right in front of the pilot on the panel, and IIRC one in the area before the rudder bar, and sometines mounts on the cockpit sides near the seat.