Breguet's Aircraft ID Challenge #1041

Tork1945 · 24 July 2012, 09:40 AM

A Challenge made specifically for those people who have seen everything of the 1914-1918 period. Take a look at this one and give an exact identification and please give the four w's - what, where, whom and when. When you have solved it all you will be honored by one point, not more but also not less.

Tork1945

Scoreboard at the start of Challenge #1041:

157.10 Dave_Kent
153.40 Varese2002
135.95 Rbailey
60.10 richard B
40.40 Aquilius
36.55 Lodzermensch
33.30 Cruze
29.58 Rod Filan
26.40 YavorD
24.70 Tork1945
22.55 Froggy
16.90 Flamingo
13.00 Breguet
10.50 matte_kudasai
10.45 GregE
10.30 Patrick
09.70 Dan-San
09.70 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger
09.20 Rufe
08.40 JohnMacG
07.70 Berman
07.70 EdStevens
07.60 trp81
07.30 Doc
07.25 Ermeio
07.10 Colin A. Owers
06.70 Ampovandak
06.30 HoHun
06.10 '14-'18aviationcollector
06.10 joegertler
06.00 Eric Goedkoop
06.00 Old Man
06.00 Sobrien
05.80 RobW
05.70 AROTH
05.70 dpolglaze
05.60 ercoupepilot
05.30 Crimso
05.30 Der Grüne Flieger
05.20 Gilles
05.20 Maze
05.10 bshatzer
05.00 AL FORBES
05.00 Kristjanr
05.00 SCMc
05.00 Tom L ......................... At and above this line, have to wait 12 hours

04.40 Ross Moorhouse ........... At and below this line, may start immediately
04.40 John McKenzie
04.30 edmondthieffry
04.00 greenknight
04.00 Luf-Rick
03.90 Brad
03.00 Catfish
03.00 Linhawk
02.50 Gregoire
02.50 Rexee
02.30 Cigogne
02.30 ckingh5
02.10 Crankcase
02.00 albatros1234
02.00 austin08
02.00 Jim
02.00 Lupodimontenero
02.00 Misa2
02.00 Rickenbaron
01.70 Kilian
01.60 airplane176
01.60 sergio_vitalio
01.50 Albatros_Ace
01.20 Ransom E. Olds
01.00 Cliff
01.00 cubsfan4life
01.00 gregorydquist
01.00 Mike Westrop
01.00 paolomiana
01.00 Peter Zambori
01.00 rammjaeger
01.00 SL DIII
01.00 Tripehound
00.90 Stig Jarlevik
00.80 Machinbird
00.80 Mad Mac
00.80 tbstreet
00.80 toxisch
00.60 Sreiko
00.50 Douglas7
00.50 Martin Irvine
00.40 Johnnick
00.40 Vilkata
00.30 albapfalzd30
00.30 Miroslav Pokorny
00.30 Nieuport14
00.20 Paul_J._Fisher

Previous: Aeroplanes 1914 - 1918* -* Breguet's Aircraft Challenge* --

The rules:

1. The thread title must be "Breguet's Aircraft ID Challenge #......"
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The completed aircraft must have been either; designed, built or have left the ground during the '14-'18 period and be identifiable by the poster.
4. The photo must show the whole aircraft - from whatever angle, or at least 2 views of a 3 view drawing (photo by preference).
5. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified (always check the list at Aeroplanes 1914 - 1918* -* Breguet's Aircraft Challenge* -- when in doubt !) and the poster re-post within the same thread, the 12hours handicap beginning from that point.
6. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of an aircraft for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the aircraft is submitted.
7. Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they become an ACE. Once they become an ACE they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
8. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
9. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
10. If an ace gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
11. The final arbiter in relation to questions about the rules is BREGUET.

Rbailey · 26 July 2012, 10:02 AM

Since no one has touched this rather flimsy looking collection of components, I will start the speculations. It appears to have floats as well as wheels - intended as an amphibious something? The propeller is horizontal, but it also has wings - of a sort. Looks odd for a helicopter; could it be a tilting engine design? The wheels under the engine suggest that they could be used for that - but where was the cockpit- between the wheels/floats? The background looks rural US. Hints please.

Rod_Filan · 26 July 2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron

The wheels under the engine suggest ...

The first VTOL aircraft! Now we just need to know its name.

Cheers

Tork1945 · 26 July 2012, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rbailey

Since no one has touched this rather flimsy looking collection of components, I will start the speculations. It appears to have floats as well as wheels - intended as an amphibious something? The propeller is horizontal, but it also has wings - of a sort. Looks odd for a helicopter; could it be a tilting engine design? The wheels under the engine suggest that they could be used for that - but where was the cockpit- between the wheels/floats? The background looks rural US. Hints please.

....this rather flimsy looking collection of components....

It is like looking with 2012 values to a piece of work dating from 1914. I don't think this is an historically very useful thing to do. It would be better to get some feeling what was going on in 1914.

Well, the design originates from Europe.

Tork1945

Tork1945 · 26 July 2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rod_Filan

The first VTOL aircraft! Now we just need to know its name.

Not enough to earn a full point though, as stated

Take a look at this one and give an exact identification and please give the four w's - what, where, whom and when. When you have solved it all you will be honored by one point, not more but also not less.

Tork1945

Rbailey · 26 July 2012, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tork1945

....this rather flimsy looking collection of components....

It is like looking with 2012 values to a piece of work dating from 1914. I don't think this is an historically very useful thing to do. It would be better to get some feeling what was going on in 1914.

Well, the design originates from Europe.

Tork1945

If flimsy is understood to imply fragile, I stand by my description. Meant to be descriptive, not judgmental. But good to know it is European.

Tork1945 · 26 July 2012, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rbailey

If flimsy is understood to imply fragile, I stand by my description. Meant to be descriptive, not judgmental. But good to know it is European.

According to the Oxford dictionary flimsily means

'comparatively light and insubstantial; easily damaged'

Surely the machine is lightly built, otherwise the chance to come loose from the ground would be nil. The machine is not easily damaged, when you know the sturdy metal tube construction. So the given meaning of flimsily does not apply to the Challenge machine. I stand by my earlier text, there is nothing flimsily here in a 1914 construction.

Tork1945

missouri mule · 27 July 2012, 04:57 AM

flimsily .... REALLY?

Rbailey · 27 July 2012, 05:48 AM

Let us not argue about semantics. I think it looks flimsy, even if the structure is actually robust. But is my suggestion of a tilting engine correct?

Tork1945 · 27 July 2012, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rbailey

Let us not argue about semantics. I think it looks flimsy, even if the structure is actually robust. But is my suggestion of a tilting engine correct?

Your suggestion of a tilting engine is not correct. I decided to do another picture of this advanced (1914) machine. This picture shows the machine not fully completed (no wings yet) and without the floats. On a later date the inventor / designer decided that he wanted to test the machine in water. After that it was more or less a sort of amphibian.

Tork1945