ALB. vs OAW or is that AWS

[Dave_Watts]

Hi all,

I need an Albatros expert for this one, and this may be splitting hairs.

I was going through my Daimler delivery sheets and noticed Daimler had changed the stamps they used for OAW, but not the one used for ALB.

Down to particulars, the stamp used by Daimler for delivery to ALB. is always;

Albatroswerke Johannistahl

For a great deal of the time the stamp used by Daimler for OAW was (up through August 10th 1918);

Ostdeutsche Albatrosw Schneidemühl

On and after August 16th 1918 the new name on the stamp is;

Albatros-Werke Schneidemühl

I know this is a very small detail that is most likely meaningless, but I thought I'd run it by everyone. It seemed odd to me they would change the name after all that time. I know Fokker changed his company name from Aeroplane Bau to Flugzeuge. Did OAW do a similar business change?

Just curious.

Best to all,
Dave W.

[joegertler]

Hi Dave;
for what it is worth...Here is the tag on the throttle housing in the cockpit of Austrian Albatros. (Most of my material was LATE war period).

[Tork1945]

Originally Posted by joegertler

Hi Dave;
for what it is worth...Here is the tag on the throttle housing in the cockpit of Austrian Albatros. (Most of my material was LATE war period).

The badge is of the Österreichisch-Ungarische Albatros-Flugwerke at Wien (Vienna) / Stadlau was taken over on 27 February 1917 by the the Castiglioni 'empire' and incorporated in the Phönix Flugzeugwerke AG. As Castiglioni had control of Hansa-Brandenburg, UFAG and Phönix he had influence over a large part of the K.u.k aviation production.

It would be interesting when a biography of Castiglioni and his rise to power would be written.

Tork1945

[joegertler]

Originally Posted by Tork1945

The badge is of the Österreichisch-Ungarische Albatros-Flugwerke at Wien (Vienna) / Stadlau was taken over on 27 February 1917 by the the Castiglioni 'empire' and incorporated in the Phönix Flugzeugwerke AG. As Castiglioni had control of Hansa-Brandenburg, UFAG and Phönix he had influence over a large part of the K.u.k aviation production.
Tork1945

Hi Tork

Which would make it no surprise that some of the other throttle quadrant housings from the same group, had these tags...

[Tork1945]

Originally Posted by joegertler

Hi Tork

Which would make it no surprise that some of the other throttle quadrant housings from the same group, had these tags...

Exactly, historically interesting plates. Thanks for the view.

Tork1945

[Tork1945]

Originally Posted by Dave_Watts

Hi all,

I need an Albatros expert for this one, and this may be splitting hairs.

I was going through my Daimler delivery sheets and noticed Daimler had changed the stamps they used for OAW, but not the one used for ALB.

Down to particulars, the stamp used by Daimler for delivery to ALB. is always;

Albatroswerke Johannistahl

For a great deal of the time the stamp used by Daimler for OAW was (up through August 10th 1918);

Ostdeutsche Albatrosw Schneidemühl

On and after August 16th 1918 the new name on the stamp is;

Albatros-Werke Schneidemühl

I know this is a very small detail that is most likely meaningless, but I thought I'd run it by everyone. It seemed odd to me they would change the name after all that time. I know Fokker changed his company name from Aeroplane Bau to Flugzeuge. Did OAW do a similar business change?

Just curious.

Best to all,
Dave W.

I have not worked completely through it but their are some news items in the German magazine Flugsport Volume 1917, which give some idea what was happening at the Albatroswerke Gesellschaft.

From Flugsport Volume 9 (1917) 9 (2 May) p. 286 [Original German text]

Albatroswerke Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung zu Berlin-Johannisthal. Georg Dietrich, Direktor, Berlin-Halensee, Alfred Hahn, Kaufmann, Charlottenburg, sind gerichtlich bestellte Liquidatoren.

Albatroswerke Gesellschaft GmbH in Johannisthal was in liquidation at that time (April / May 1917) and the curators are named !

From Flugsport Volume 9 (1917) 25 (12 December) p. 774 [Original German text]

Albatrosgesellschaft für Flugzeugunternehmungen mit beschränkter Haftung, Berlin, Werk Schneidemühl. Der Oberingenieur Hugo Grohmann in Schneidemühl ist berechtigt, die Zweigniederlassung der Gesellschaft in Schneidekühl als Prokurist, mit Beschränkung auf diese Zweigniederlassung, allein zu vertreten.

Nothing very special here, but the branch of Albatros at Schneidemühl (in German called a 'Zweigwerk') got a procurator in the name of Oberingenieur Hugo Grohmann.

So in 1917 it seemed the Albatros concern was liquidated - for all its branches probably - and 'renewed' as it was surely unthinkable that such a pillar of the German aviation industry should end by financial reasons. After the renewal of the firm it was probably seen fit to reorganize it, hence the procurator for the branch Schneidemühl. Beware though that most of this is speculation, safe the texts of Flugsport 1917 of course.

I will look through Flugsport Volume 1918 for more pieces on the Albatros works.

Tork1945

[Tork1945]

I found a small footnote that starting from 15 March 1917 the new firm name was 'Albatros Gesellschaft für Flugunternehmungen GmbH' with Robert Thelen as procurator.

The quote is from:

Kauther, Alexander and Paul Wirtz. 2011. Robert Thelen: Ein alten Adler in Johannisthal. Heft 27 aus der Dokumentenreihe über den Flugplatz Johannisthal 1909-1914.

p. 106 gives footnote 145 which in German is

Ab 15 März 1917 lautete die neue Firmenbezeichnung: "Albatros Gesellschaft für Flugunternehmungen GmbH" mit dem Prokuristen Robert Thelen.

To summarize the name of the Albatros firm was changed for some reason per March 15, 1917 probably in relation with the liquidation of the 'old' firm. It is probably an old 'trick' often done then and now to bring the assets in a new firm and leave the debts in the old firm which is liquidated. But beware this is something for the financial specialists who will know these things far better than I do.

Tork1945

[Lodzermensch]

Hello,

Originally Posted by Tork1945

I found a small footnote...

Ab 15 März 1917 lautete die neue Firmenbezeichnung: "Albatros Gesellschaft für Flugunternehmungen GmbH" mit dem Prokuristen Robert Thelen.

...

Tork1945

There is something wrong with that name. GmbH stands for Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung that means company with limited liability. The full name quoted by Tork after Alexander Kauther and Paul Wirtz would be Albatros Gesellschaft für Flugunternehmungen Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftun. It seems to me strange (unusual?) that the word Gesellschaft appears twice in the name of company.

On the other hand, I have met the name Albatros Gesellschaft für Flugzeugunternehmungen mbH in documents dated from the beginning of 1920 cited in one of Polish books dealing with the history of Schneidemühl. Perhaps native speakers could explain this discrepancy.

Just my two cents – for the record.

Regards

Marek