Sopwith Triplane vs. Fokker Dr1

cspellman · 9 January 2003, 09:58 AM

This might be a silly question but, does anyone have any information on these two planes engaging eachother in combat and the results? I have heard that the Sopwith was the better of the two in terms of combat maneuverability. Just curious as to the historical combat relationship between these two aircraft (i.e. whether they met in combat).

MikeW · 9 January 2003, 10:37 AM

There is no evidence that they met in combat - there are two reports of Sopwith triplanes "seeing" a Fokker triplane accompanying Albatros scouts - one of the reports cannot be true and one could be true.

So - they could have danced around the same bit of sky briefly, just once.

The Sopwiths were being withdrawn, as the Fokkers were being introduced.

Mike

cspellman · 9 January 2003, 11:30 AM

Thanks Mike. *Do you know where I can find these reports?

Quote:

There is no evidence that they met in combat - there are two reports of Sopwith triplanes "seeing" a Fokker triplane accompanying Albatros scouts - one of the reports cannot be true and one could be true.

So - they could have danced around the same bit of sky briefly, just once.

The Sopwiths were being withdrawn, as the Fokkers were being introduced.

Mike

MikeW · 10 January 2003, 09:00 AM

They will be in my forthcoming book on the Sowith Triplane, but if you can't wait that long, you will find them in the Naval 1 daily ops records held at the Public Records Office.

Mike

Angiolillo · 5 March 2003, 01:23 AM

>I have heard that the Sopwith was the better of the two in terms of combat maneuverability. *

I have heard the opposite. Any clue?

Speaking of a great simplifiation, the "Blue Max" boardgame gives the same maneuvres to both the planes. And other boardgames do the same. If any game enthusiast is reading, do you think that it is acceptable for that level of detail?

Thanks!

Andrea

Lufbery · 5 March 2003, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Speaking of a great simplifiation, the "Blue Max" boardgame gives the same maneuvres to both the planes. And other boardgames do the same. If any game enthusiast is reading, do you think that it is acceptable for that level of detail?

Thanks!

Andrea

In a word: yes. I remember getting a little upset that the ceiling for the Dr.1 was listed as very high in Blue Max. I thought it should only be high. Then I found at least one data source that showed that the Dr.1 could get to 20,000 feet. There are planes that could fly higher than 20,000 feet, but they would also fit in the very high bracket. (All my comments are for the 2nd edition of the game).

In short, the system for Blue Max is not detailed enough to make fine distinctions between planes. Anyway, the Sopwith Triplane only has one gun, and that makes a difference in the game.

In games that I've played, though, the feel jhas been about right. The Dr.1 (or Sop Triplane) is maneuverable as heck, but not as fast as the Alb or Spad fighters. This leads to different strategies that play to each plane's strengths -- just like in real life.

Regards,

Angiolillo · 5 March 2003, 03:20 AM

Thanks a lot! I am trying to make a game that has roughly the same detail level of Blue Max, and I provided the Triplane and the Dr.I with the same agility. Your opinion is a good support for that. And yes, the Triplane will have a single MG... except for the one of Major

Roderic Stanley Dallas, that will anyway included in the basic set to give more game options to players designing their own scenarios.

Thanks again!

Andrea

MikeW · 5 March 2003, 07:39 AM

Angiolillo,

just curious as to why you give Dallas a 2 gun triplane in your game - he only flew a two gun aircraft on one occasion, the aircraft he flew "belonged" to Flight Commander Forster Maynard. I admit he had more success in one flight than Maynard did in a month or so!!

Mike

Lufbery · 5 March 2003, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Thanks a lot! I am trying to make a game that has roughly the same detail level of Blue Max, and I provided the Triplane and the Dr.I with the same agility. Your opinion is a good support for that. And yes, the Triplane will have a single MG... except for the one of Major

Roderic Stanley Dallas, that will anyway included in the basic set to give more game options to players designing their own scenarios.

Thanks again!

Andrea

No problem. I thought the game was ready and about to be released. ???

Regards,

Angiolillo · 5 March 2003, 10:11 PM

To Mike: we are trying to put several weapon variants in the game, to have more variety in scenario possibilities. For example we have 3 hanriot HD.1 with one machinegun (Coppens', Olieslagers' and Bogliolo's), but also Scaroni's one with two MGs - a solution that he personally experimented with his weapon assistant "Bigio".

We need only the view from above, to be put on the card. As far as Sopwit Triplanes are concerned, I wanted at least a two MGs machine. We planned to put three Triplanes in the starting box. The artist - a contributor to several Italian modellers' magazines - made 4 of them, on his own choice: a black one from 8 Naval, Little's black with a red cross, Dallas' one (a pale one) and Collishaw's one, brown with a C on the tail. If you want to get the drawings by email - any comment is welcome - just write me at angiolillo@gioco.net.

We would like to put pilot's name, rank (at the time he flew that machine) and unit on the rear of each card matching the color schemes choosed, so we planned to put

Captain

Robert Alexander Little - 8 Naval - Royal Naval Air Service

Major

Roderic Stanley Dallas - 1 Naval - Royal Naval Air Service

Lieutenant Colonel

Raymond Collishaw - 10 Naval - Royal Naval Air Service

(even if maybe we'll have to shorten all that a bit).

Now, if Dallas' machine was actually Maynard's and you think that it is more appropriate to put the latter's name, just tell me and I'll do it! We are in time.

Why do we are is the answer to Lufbery. From my author's point of view, game is ready: design and playtest are complete, the publisher started launching it at Nurnberg Toy and Game Fair (end of january). We authors spent quite a lot of time with our friend Dario who is making the layout of the cards: we are happy of the result and they should have gone to print in early february. But the publisher has some different ideas on the best possible layout, so we are still discussing some detail about fonts, backgrounds and so on. As soon as Dario and the publisher agree (by the end of next week?) we will pack the file with the first 264 cards (two boxes) and send it to Carta Mundi. In the meantime, there are still some adjustment possible: for example we recently eliminated a Belgian camouflaged Nieuport 11 (you can see the profile around on the Net, but our Belgian friends denied its existence) putting a French camouflaged one in its place.