The world of aviation art as I know it,,,sort of

[Tim West]

I guess, not being part of the "paying" art world, accounts for me not realizing how each group might feel towards each other. I see art in a broad general sense, rather than on a singular medium basis.

Though I completely understand the differences between the mediums. In a sense you do the same thing, but each is different and regarded as the "way it should" when the other party is concerned.

Funny how that works.I just had no idea, how some feel illustration may not be "art". Or that "art" was its own medium of art.


On the other topic of this thread did anyone look at the screenshot.com that Jim pointed out? Is that art? Point and Click? or both? I have edited more than a few game screen shots for one reason or another. Its creative in composition and thats about it. Still it can make for some nice PC wallpaper.



This is a Yakolev 3 of Normandie Nieman 7. Like Jim, I was left with my jaw on the floor the first time I played Il2. What a great sim.

Anyhow how the above screenie features a model and scene, created by others. The only thing I did was create the skin, compose the shot......and edit it in Photo Shop. I think it came out nice, but I am not sure I would call it art. I feel it was more "point and shoot", even though I did the texture and composition.

Hehe, thats kind of contradictory to my other post, but I feel that art need to be a bit more than luck and the "Print Scrn" button.

I guess thats sums up how many traditional artist feel about us CG artist.

[Tim West]

Originally posted by Mark_Miller@Mar 3 2004, 07:01 PM
[b]motorcycle as art?

Yes, to a point. Not so much mass production bikes, the more there are the less they appeal to me as art. But in terms of custom choppers and even cars for that matter, I would give the them a stamp as "Art".

They are even a unique form of art in that it takes the art of many people to create one finished piece. Heh, kind of a type of Team Art

[Bob_D]

Greetings and Salutations, Jim!

I want you to know that I hold you personally responsible for my having missed alot of the flight line action at last September's "Dawn Patrol Rendezvous" out in Dayton! Your gallery showing at the Air Force Museum was the highlight of the week for me (with the possible exception of seeing the three DR1's in flight simultaneously ). I was repeatedly drawn back to your companion pieces, "Bonne Chance" and " "C'est la Guerre", (the prints are now the show pieces of my collection). What a story they relay! "Between Heaven and Hell", amazing! "Udet's Toys"; looking at his expression made me feel I was seeing him in person! Welcome Sir and please visit often.

Regards,
Bob D.

[Alan]

I'm of the ignorant when it comes to Art. I know what I like and I don't render (sic) judgement on this that or the other. I guess I don't split hairs here.

Illustration? Engineering? A scrawl in the sand? An odd rock formation?

Form following function or vice versa?

It's individual and what one makes of it.

If money is involved, it generally, to me, signifies economics 101- supply and demand.

But it doesn't define Art. Art is too abstract (sic) for that

[Mark_Miller]

This Art vs Illustration question came up a while ago on one of the CG forums and one guy defined it like this:

illustration is art, but art is not necessarily illustration. Illustration is art that "clarifies or explains" an idea or a story.”

I think that says it pretty well.

Illustration vs artist angst
I read once that NC Wyeth always wanted to be a “fine artist”
Apparently he produced some work and had a showing, but it was not well received.
From the photo in the book it didn’t look very good.
Had a dated 40s look – reminiscent of Grant Wood but even more stilted.
Kind of odd - his illustration work is wonderful.
But, on a happier note – his son made it.

Mark

[Barker]

Yikes.

Am listening to music in iTunes.

Dis made my head wansa buss open all ova' de place.


If I find this guy "Art", Imma kick his ass.

[Mark_Miller]

And the hardest definition of all:

Art – to me it is a combination of creativity and self expression.
Which, when you think of it, is everywhere you look.
models, cooking, athletics, just about anything you can name can be touched with it – to some degree.

Creative self expresion
I think it is what seperates us from animals
And for those of a religious bent – is a close to God as we can get. It's in everybody and in everything we touch.
This might sound kind of silly - but it's like magic pixie dust
light in some places - heavier in others,
But, it can be seen in it's purest form in "fine art"
So, I find it kind of useless to set down a line somewhere and say this side is art, and this side is not.

Who decides if something represents a pure enough act of creation to be labeled “fine art”?
Don’t know, but I think it’s like history
You need a little perspective to set it in context – and you can re-write it over time.
who knows in 500 years they might decide Picasso was a hack.
In any case – this is definitly a personal definition as it entirely ignores "contemperary art"

speaking of which
I read about a art exhibition a while back.
The artist had cut up cows in a variety of ways and somehow installed them in glass cases.
one had the whole cow sectioned in about 5 or 6 slices.
Yes, it was interesting - but I can't help but wonder who would buy one of these pieces and put it in their living room?
Mark

[Barker]

Originally posted by Mark_Miller@Mar 4 2004, 09:03 AM
[b] Yes, it was interesting - but I can't help but wonder who would buy one of these pieces and put it in their living room?
Mark

hell, that's easy:

His Mother.


we covered that.

[Mark_Miller]

One more topic near and dear to my heart

Technical Illustration – In it’s classic from, tech illustration is just like regular illustration – but, with all the “art” sucked out. Because here, nobody cares about your creativity, and they definitely don’t want any self-expression. The job is exactly as per the definition.

“Illustration is art that "clarifies or explains" an idea or a story”

And the need to explain a story entirely overwrites any and all other concerns.

The way I was taught –
Every drawing should look like it was done by the same person. In some cases you would have many illustrators working on different assemblies of what would eventually be one piece.
So everything was defined – line weights, orientation, arrow styles blah blah
The interesting thing is – you could STILL tell who did what.
I doubt anybody else would have picked it up - but we could
So, despite a concentrated effort to de-art this stuff
there is still some there.
I don’t think we can help it.

But, this approach to tech illustration is essentialy how it works in a corporate environment.
Obviously there is high end tech illustration that slides up the scale toward art.
Big question is - How far can it go?

Mark

[karrart]

Well shucks, since my name has popped up from time to time on the Forum, I figured I might as well join in the fun!
I've been lurking for years, but at the urging of some of the folks here, I finally registered night before last.
A bit of credential presenting......some work for Albatros Productions, some kit box tops (no WW I stuff yet ), lithos...a one man show at the San Diego Aerospace Museum that ran for a few months back in '02/'03...my infamous 1/32 Gotha G.IV scratchbuilt featured in Windsock and the second Alcorn book( I'll have new pics of this one soon since I've had it back from Planes of Fame museum for correction and refurbishing), and the almost equally infamous 94th Aero Squadron diorama.... anyway- that's me... and now for the subject at hand......
I gave up on wasting time over the art vs illustration battle a long time ago. I don't care what folks call me. To some I might be an artist, to others an illustrator. Nowadays I just say 'I make pictures' whenever my picture making come up. That's it- I make pictures!
Robert Karr
and if anyone want's to check out my site...long in need of a vast upgrading, head to:

http://members.aol.com/karrart/index.htm
scroll around, there IS some WW I stuff scattered around!