The world of aviation art as I know it,,,sort of

[James Dietz]

<_< <_<
This is my first posting in this Forum & I'm a little nervous that it will get thru- you see I'm a little untrusting when it comes to computers...anyway.

Recently friends have drawn my attention to postings here that have been discussing opinions on Aviation art & illustration , some of which happen to mention me ( I especially like the one that hints at my timely demise...heh, heh....) Without sounding like an Oscar winner ( it was just last night some its on mymind...) let me thank all my old friends who have had such nice things to say about my humble efforts ( your checks are in the mail....) Now I'm not going to get into all the ins & outs of my views & approach to art & illustration it would be a waste of my inept typing time & your reading time , but I will say this thay my limited success in this field is primarily due to having good teachers at Art Center, good role models in classic American Illustration( Rockwell, Tom Lovell, Jack Leynnwood, Jimmy Bama. FrankMcCarthy etc. etc.) A lot of help from others & yes a lot of years at the drawing board ( frankly - I needed it!) Today I have the extraordinary good fortune to be " following my own drummer" ( believe me I'm not at all sure why or how...)& in this peculiar situation I don't pay a lot of attention to " what is happening inthe field of Aviation art/illustration or what its definition should be.I have my own view as to why it has yet to become as large a field as other interest driven ( cowboy, wildlife,nautical etc.)art forms & have opened my big mouth at various ASAA Forums once too often , so I won't get into that today either.

What I did want to write about ( briefly )was Computer art in this field ...in a word , I'm fascinated by it!I've seen it in various formson the net on different sites .In particular I have been led there by links from the UBI IL-2 Forgotten Battles site (a game I might say stands every chance of destroying my flourishing career, because it is just so neat - - Hopefully one day WW-1 will have its version???? Then my painting life will be at an end...)At any rate the screen shots shpwn here & other places just knocked me out - the action color , perspective that the computer made possible was( is) so much more inventive than 99% of the laborious hand painted work I & others have been doing - and so much faster too..Now like everything else much of it is perhaps not what one would call great & much suffers from the basic amaturishness that the medium makes possible , but there are many jewels too.AND MOVIES!!!! Wow there are some amature movie makers that have made 5- 10 minute action pics thathave more adreniline producing moments than any 100 av art paintings could ever duplicate...I've often thought the future of 2-D art might be progammable flat viewing screens( as a small aside & of arguably more interest to WW-1 fans- I have had the opportunity of seing a 2 minute test reel done by director Peter Jackson of WW-1 combat( camels , Triplanes etc) that simply put all other WW-=1 movie footage in the shade- to use an over used word: STUNNING!!!) The future is here( or as Kevin Mc Carthy shouted to all who wouldn't listen: " They're her now! You're next,,,!!!YOU'RE NEXT!!!!") Now don't get me all wrong - I love to paint & I love paintings -a teacher used to say that the "visible effort required gave these works worth..." He might have also added the degree of artistic sophistication ( i.e, design/composition, color , depth, accuracy,skill et al)gives work worth. The same might be said to be true of these new forms that can be done with the help of the computer.

To show you there is a little life in my observations , just last week , I was contacted over the internet to judge a sort of screenshot Av art Contest on the website: Screenshot Art.com. This is a one man band sort of site but its what drives all art (at least initially) a passion-its starts small & then its anybody's guess where it goes from there..

Cheers!

Jim Dietz

[stephen]

Great to have you here, Jim. My study walls would be naked without your work. "The Final Analysis" remains a favorite.

Its amazing how many top rank artists hang around here... Jim, Mike O'Neal... I think Russell Smith has been here as well. We are blessed.

[Alan]

My walls are naked without any paintings! (Lack of funds..)

Jim, Welcome! This is the place for WWI on the internet. The level of scholarship in this field on this site is astounding....

Personally, I've seen quite a bit of your work in the Continental Airlines Pilot's Union HQ (CAL-ALPA). Their boardroom is filled with a lot of aviation artwork and yours graces their walls at least two or three times....maybe more...I'll count the next time I'm in there!

BTW, I really dig the Fall 2003 cover of OTF of Udet...was that commissioned for that cover or is the original a little bigger?

[AAC Cadet Leader]

Hi Jim,
Just want to tell you I've been a fan of your artwork since F. J., another fine artist from Indianapolis pointed out your works to me in 1988.
Looked for your works on this site. Hope you'll post some soon.

[Mark_Miller]

Hi Jim
I am SO glad to see you here
And I see you aren't wasting any time.
This "art" forum is relatively new here and we have yet to take on the realy big issues.
namely all the "is it art" questions.

Illustration vs Art
Aviation art vs Art
CG art vs Art

I'm sure you know how divisive all these questions are, and there will definitely be differences of opinion.
in fact, I would be disapointed if there wasn't.

I have also had some contact with the ASAA, and I think I might have some idea of what you are hinting at.
FYI - I inquired a while back about joining, but they don't accept people who use that computer thing as artist members.
And I believe CG work is specificaly banned from all of their juried shows.
ok, maybe I'm just being bullheaded or something, but this put me off.
associate member? uhhh no thanks
now, don't get me wrong, they seem like a very nice group of people, and I think I understand where they coming from.
I just happen to disagree with them.

well, the other issue is this aviation art thing.
This one drives them crazy as it seems that the promotion of aviation art as "ART" is one of their prime directives.
sorry - it's all illustration to me.

but, i don't think I need to apologise for that because i LOVE illustration.
yes, more than art - whatever that is.
An illustrator is all I ever wanted to be.

to add to your list of favorite illustrators
Howard Pyle
NC Wyeth
Maxfield Parish
Edmund Dulac
Arthur Rackam

Of all these great illustrator, my favorite is NC Wyeth.
Your work reminds me of his
Higher praise I can not give
Mark

[Mark_Miller]

sorry, another one from me
But, you brought up a lot of issues.

CG art - first what does that mean
The Cg community says it means Computer Graphics.
But I think most people think it means Computer Generated.
Perhaps a subtle difference, but the term computer generated does have a bad spin to it.
It's like the computer did it - you just pushed the button.
Which i believe is a widely held view.

And i think this is the crux of the whole CG issue.
Who is responsible for the artwork - the artist or the computer
Is it realy an expression of the intent of an artist or is it just the result of some code written by a software designer.

IMHO, the answer is - it depends
You can use the computer in a way which to my mind surrenders your creative input. It's kind of funny, but in the CG community we don't argue about whether or not the whole thing is art.
we argue about the artistic merit of specific tools
For instance in photoshop there are a lot of filters.
And a lot of them are great, but others are horrible
watercolor, edge detection, polarise - it's like instant art
which in reality are all ways of just eliminating yourself from an image.
It then becomes Photoshop art to my mind

so, you see, a computer can be just as bad as they say it is.
It all depends on how you use it.
But, that's not much different than any other medium as far as i can see.

ah well
in the end, the only thing that matters is the image
and I try not to be too concerned about classifications
other than - is it good or is it bad B)
Mark

[Barrett]

James me lad! Dee-lighted to see you here. Please visit often!

Ref. Mark's mention of Aviation Art v Art: I had the pleasure of addressing that topic in an article about RG Smith perhaps 12-15 years ago. He noted that nautical art took a long time to gain acceptance as "real" art but eventually succeeded. I have no doubt that AvArt will do so, as it's already made significant progress. Skyscapes like seascapes & landscapes lends itself to acceptance, and if artists want to include dirty,smelly old aeroplanes in that setting, who's to say No?

Anyhoo, methinks that art is art, regardless of the medium, just as good writing is good writing, regardless of the genre.

Now: I wonder if Bill Phillips knows about The Forum...

[Russell Smith]

well, the other issue is this aviation art thing.
This one drives them crazy as it seems that the promotion of aviation art as "ART" is one of their prime directives.
sorry - it's all illustration to me.

(biting my lip, biting my lip, biting my lip...)

I don't want to say much on the subject here because when I do I usually say TOO much and end up offending somebody or getting called out for what I've said (besides, I like Mark, even if I don't always agree with him )

BUT, IMHO

I see nothing wrong with the promotion of Aviation subjects as art. There are aviation "artists" whom I would define as illustrators, and there are those whom I would define as artists. For me, the defining characteristic of those artists' work, as opposed to the illustrators, is that their work transcends the subject. I'll use Mike O'Neal as an example. To me, Mike is a true artist. When I look at one of Mike's pieces, I'm not looking at a neat picture of an airplane, I am looking at beautifully crafted painting that happen to have WW1 aircraft in it (pay me later, Mike ). I strive to do the same with my work, perhaps I am successful, perhaps not. I find nothing wrong with Illustration, mind you. Many of my favorite aviation artists are actually illustrators. Just stating that I do see a difference.

Jim, welcome. We're honored to have you here. Take off your shoes and stay a while. (And let me please add what an influence youy have had on my own work)

Russ

[Tim West]

Sweet....somebody I have heard of

Welcome Jim. Love your work, did I mention
I like "Circus rolls at dawn" ?? Again, welcome.

Art need not please everyone to be worthy of acceptance. Wether it be spray paint or water colors, created on a easel or through the lense of a Nikon, art takes many forms......and no matter how good it really is, not everyone is going to like it. To hate it, still evoked the emotion.

Art is everywhere.

I think the bickering between the purist in the many mediums of art is a waste of time. In the end who cares? As a amateur artist, a CG Artist,
don't really care if a schooled illustrator finds my art, in content or medium, a valid form of expression. I do it because I like it. And in the end don't care if you do

As mentioned, you can not seriously deny that CG is here and is here to stay. From animation to illustration, cg is a medium that is growing in acceptance and I think in time CG as a form of art, worthy to be framed is
not far behind.

Jim,

I find it interesting you enjoy IL2, and I totally agree that WWI using the IL2 game engine would be the best thing that could happen to flight sims.

I got my interest in cg through game add ons and what not, and I too find some of the game art to be very nice, again its all in the eye of the beholder

[Tim West]

Ok,

Here is a lame question. Why the angst between illustrators and "artist".

I enjoy work by both illustrators and artist a like. Its all art.....

OR maybe I am just easily amused