Fokker Triplane: Ver. 2.0

[1998328is]

Hey Tim,
I'm thinking that those were your models in the latest WWI "Dogfights episode" Great job btw.
Did they actually use your models or just the texture maps?
It's funny that you have decided to rework your DR-1. I thought it was great. I guess your never really done with a model...
Could you post a close-up of your "wing-strut-cleat"? It's a part I'm having a lot of difficulty with.
I like the wings they look good.
I'm curious to see your take on the section for the mid wing where it connects to the to the fuselage. I am baffled by that area and it's hard to tell how the cockpit and the holes for the guns line up.
Congratulations again and keep up the good work!

PA

[Tim West]

Patrick,

I model using a either straight poly and or sub d. I might do spline modeling sometimes for an odd shape...but quickly convert to nurbs or polys. But mostly a combo of poly and sub -d. I love being able to sculpt geometry in sub d...really gives the model an organic feel.

The wings this time around are just poly blocks .....looped in just the right spots and then smoothed. No need to do sud-d here. The first time I did the fokker wing tips I had a real hard time but this time they just flowed real nice. I was pretty happy. The middle wings were a bitch this time. I couldnt get a boolean to work so I had to patch model the round cut outs.....YUK! will post a small wip re cap with pics when the model is done.


Tom,

Yeh, I know 103 was FI variant.....I will use DrI most of the time when posting. you'll just have to figure out which variant is being worked on
I will do parts for both the Dr1 and FI.

Still probably wont do those types of scenes. Its reality but just not what I want to model. You know one of my favorites ....though I cant remember what type of plane it was...is one where a plane missed the field or what ever and landed on a house....kinda funny.

[Tim West]

Mark,

Thanks for stoping by. Yeh , its been a model I have wanted to re do for long time. I have decided to make this my main area of interest for WWI. I will do other planes but the DrI will be the one I really spend most of my time with.

Yeh maps and materials will be a HUGE! part of the re do. I have learned so much since I did the model the last time. All I did for Dogfights was smooth some edges and make some things camera ready. I didnt not re do the maps either. I was never really happy with my first go at streaky paint either. This time the maps will probably be 4096 wide. Also the engine and guns will get remapped....to look like my lewis gun renders. The meshes are ok.

Here is what I have been messing with lately.





I like the last one and its easy to reproduce...its just not ...uh dry enough yet.

....lol! your awesome! I was just looking at one of your DVII renders and your mention of the rust gave me an idea.... I need to go shoot some textures this weekend.

About the streaky green. I have trouble with the "period" photos in that I think the film used may be causing the streaks to look more coarse than they really were. Just something bugs me about how the streaks look... the bristles were coarse but not that coarse....and most of the photos only "sort of" match the replica photos today. I hope to spend more time on this area for sure. Your thoughts are always appreciated

[Tim West]

PA,

Thanks! yes those were my models and maps. I had a great time working on them.

I will post a better shot of my strut when its mapped. Its a piece I have had trouble with too. I have no "period" photos that clearly show this area to advantage. Yours looks close....but if you look at the wing structure and how they are mounted then your cleat and how most all the cleats look in the photos would not very practical. The struts I believe were suppose to pivot a bit on a pin.....like the inboard struts....but you dont really see the hardware in the photos so its hard to know. Its looks all most like they wrapped it with something near where the cleat meets the wing.

I bet someone out there has a nice big scan of this area??????

You'll have to wait till I do the fuselage for the middle wing covers. I had trouble with this area the first time around ...mostly due to lack of books, photos and info. I have been gathering junk for 4 years or so now. So some of these problem areas are no longer problems. I really want to do a full cockpit on this one too.

These issues and the like hopefully will get ironed out overht course of this project.

BTW, whats your package of choice?

[1998328is]

Hey Tim,
Nice textures there.
Yeah any actual picture that I have seen of an actual WWI Dr-1 there is no way to see what that "cleat" looks like.
I have some pics of cleats from replicas,but they all seem different. I'm sure that you have seen these pictures on the web.
I also have noticed that the cockpit area is different from replica to replica.
So I'm going with what I like best!
My "package of choice" you mean 3D modeling program? I'm still using Carrara. It works best for me and it's cheap. I have gotten pretty good with mapping in it although it would be nice if the instruction manual had a bit more information on mapping. The instructions are kinda sparse.

What are you using for your textures? photoshop?

Regards
PA

[Tim West]

Pa,

Yep, most pictures dont show this area clearly. In most photos, it appears that the "cleats" are somehow mounting "in" the wing....with no clear means of attachment. Like there is no gap between the cleat and the wing. In a few photos you can see a small gap and what appears to be mounting points. Most replicas clearly have space between the strut and the wing surface.

Perhaps the drawings used over used the years are just not right. They only sort of match what is seen in the photos.. So at this point....I will keep looking for info.

I work my textures in PS. The above pics are brush test. I love making my own brushes. Also by making my own brushes and scripts I can maintain a continuity in my work...from project to project.

I like your model so far. Looks real good. I have never used carrara but it looks like a very capable program. I know what you mean about the lack of documentation. Even Maya, which ships with a small library of books and the Help is great...its very basic. I still buy dvds and books from the net. Learn the most from the vids. Problem with 3D is that you can literally do what ever you want so there is lots to learn for sure

[tcrean7828]

Tim,

Keep up the good work old bean.

cul

tcrean7828

tom

[Mark_Miller]

Tim
I saw that "dogfights" episode yesterday.
nice job!
IMHO the CG work was quite a bit better than the first one.
most noticable improvment to me was the appearance of the distant aircraft.
in the earlier installment anything that was distant from the camera looked..... well, pretty horrible.
The rigging was particularly nasty.
distant stuff is still a little unconvincing, but at least it doesn't hurt the eyes
congrats to the shader writer.

texture were very nice.
although, if they want to get that close they should probably give you the time to make some bigger maps.
one scene that stands out in my mind is the close up of the spad cowl in the first sequence.
and, of course, one can always complain about the animation.
some stuff was moving around in some very strange ways.
but given the schedule, it was pretty darn impresive.

in fact, i was impressed by the whole show.
congrats

[Tim West]

Glad you got to see the show. It was way better than the first try at WWI. I really liked the shaders too...especially how the light caught the weathered finish of the linen. Way cool!

Indeed more time and bigger maps for sure! I really wish I had the time to totally redo the triplanes maps. They were small compared to the others. The maps for the Se5a and DIII were 4096x4096x150. This size seems ok for TV....Though more time and bigger maps would have been GREAT!. Time is usually the killer with this stuff :/

What size do you guys like to use for film? I would like to do these new maps at similar size.

Here are some reduced samples from the Se5. I was actually happy with these maps but they didnt really do a lot of close shots with the Se5.





With the bump applied, these came out real nice.

I dont know why they chose to do close ups on what they did...like the Spad7 cowl...which I didnt get to do.. But some areas, on all the planes had high detail areas, that I thought would be good close in. What I really was hoping for was a close up of my lewis gun spitting lead....oh well



The DIII maps are so so. Most of my time was spent doing the grained panels. They looked ok on TV but this one I really wish was bigger. I liked the engine though I didn't have time to map and texture it like the lewis gun.

I am still very pleased with the results. I learned a lot. I mean I did stuff that used to take me years, in days. Thats what I am most proud of. Its almost easy now

.......almost

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by 1998328is

Yeah any actual picture that I have seen of an actual WWI Dr-1 there is no way to see what that "cleat" looks like.
I have some pics of cleats from replicas,but they all seem different. I'm sure that you have seen these pictures on the web.

PA

Just a suggestion, get a copy of Paul Leaman's book Fokker Dr.I Triplane: A World War I Legend. On page 127, there is a detailed set of diagrams showing the cleats and strut construction. The cleats were fastened tightly to the spar, completely encircling it in the case of the center cleat. There was no airgap between the base of the cleat and the spar; the cleats sat solidly on the spar and were fastened to it. They were designed so that the same two parts could be used in multiples and combinations for all of the interplane strut mounts. When you see how they're made and mounted, you'll appreciate the simple, strong design that's a hallmark of Fokker and Platz. The book also contains some good reference material about the top-center area around the guns. In fact, triplane construction is covered in a detailed 30+ page chapter that includes many dimensioned diagrams and photos. I recommend this book highly to anyone trying to model a Dr.I.