Another Reason We Artists Are Starving

Russell Smith · 29 September 2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAC Cadet Leader

Thank you everyone for your good feedback. I’m glad to see that the majority of you share my opinion.

At the time Maribel pulled me over to proudly share with me her news of what she was having her associate do with the print I had given her, my immediate feelings were:
1% flattered
1% happy - however, my outward reaction to Maribel, who was so proud to tell me, thinking (or hoping) she’d be pleasing me, was that I was okay with it
88% upset - my heart sunk and I felt like I had been kicked in the gut and stolen from
10% angry - “how could YOU and YOUR PRODUCTION ASSOCIATE do that!?” I was yelling inside my head.

That the FedEx / Kinkos associates went ahead and put two poster sized prints of my painting in their production line-up without gaining my permission was really bad, and I’m certain that they knew they were in the wrong. But the bigger matter here is that it illustrates just how lax societal norms have become on the matter of copying copyrighted works. Copyright infringement of artist’s works is rampant.

I’ll bet all of the artists on this forum have had their work lifted in one way or another. Similar things have happened to me in the past when I was doing a lot of t-shirt designs and sign designs, but it hurts even more with this sort of thing when it involves my fine art paintings as I put my whole heart and soul into making them.

What Mirabel and Mark did was not much different than the visitors who come through my art gallery, who whip out their camera cell phones and digital cameras and start snapping away at all their favorite paintings on my walls. Sometimes I’m outside the studio, in the garden, working on a painting and I tell visitors to please go ahead and start their gallery tour without me. Then I come in and they are snapping away. I have a sign hanging on the entry wall that says, “thank you for NOT photographing our artworks” but I guess they don’t see it - happens all the time.

And then I say to them,“I’m sorry, but could you please not take pictures of my pictures? They are copyrighted.”

Then comes the same reaction, “Oh, I’m sorry, they are? Oh, I didn’t know you couldn’t do that.”

“Well, yeah, I know. I hear that from a lot of people. The thing about it is that I have found some of my paintings on the internet that I didn’t put there and then some people just print my painting images off their computers and don’t have to bother ordering prints from me or paying me for the image, not that you’d do anything like that…”

“Oh, of course not. I just wanted to look at them and show my friends. Don’t worry, I’ll delete them right now …”

“Thanks, I’d appreciate it.”

Last year, one guy I walked in on while he was taking digital pics of my paintings, even started arguing with me when I said, “Sir, please don’t take pictures of my paintings.”

He said, “I have every right to take any pictures I want,” then added the current phrase that seems to get everyone off the hook these days, “this is America, and you have no right to stop me!”

I then asked him to leave, whether I had the right to or not.

_____________________
Next time I post, I’ll continue with my original story of the Kinkos episode and what I did…

Meanwhile, please share some more of your thoughts and stories. I’m reading all of what you guys are posting. Thanks much!

PREACH IT, SISTER.

CAN I GET AN "AMEN???"

Patrick · 29 September 2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agblume

Rule Nr.27 - Never ever trust any person who grovels. Regards, agblume

Rule Nr.43 - That which is given for free is freely discounted by the recipient.

As I read your story, I started becoming suspicious when you told how she made such a big deal about getting a free copy. Someone who really appreciated your artwork would have offered some compensation based on what they could afford for the luxury, perhaps far less than you wanted the art to sell for, but an offer made in good faith nevertheless. And because you gave into her, she values your work at the price of the paper and ink it takes to reproduce it.

An artist who does not want to exist at the level of a "starving artist" must treat all of their work as part of an ongoing business. There's nothing offensive or unusual about this, and if someone has a problem with it, it's their problem, not yours.

Quote:

. . . and reminded me that she had lent me her best scissors and loaded some paper in one of the copy machines for me the day before, etc.

The copyshop employee did nothing for you that wasn't part of her job description. When she started raising points like this, you should have reminded her of that fact. When she persisted in begging a copy, explain the sad facts of living in the real world, needing money to survive, decision to pursue art as a career and business, and offer to sell her one at fair value. If she balked and/or got offended, smile, collect your work, and walk away. That's all it takes. Her feelings in the matter are her problem -- not yours.

Since you failed to treat your business seriously, your "friend" is now treating it the same way. You need to put an end to this immediately. Inform the clerk that your gift did not come with copyright waivers and insist that she destroy all of the copies she's made of it. If she refuses, contact the manager immediately and tell him/her the whole story. I bet that the clerk not only took your work for free, she's also making expensive copies of it using time, materials and equipment she hasn't paid for. Any manager worth anything will immediately recognize the liability they have and take measures to correct it.

There's nothing flattering or beneficial in the way this person has treated you, beginning with insisting you should gift her with your work and then handing it out to others as if it was hers to do so. She sounds like the kind of person who has a huge collection of mp3 files downloaded off the Net for free, because she believes that any work of art has no tangible value beyond the cost of reproduction. I hope you gave her pilfering a strong response.

Russell Smith · 29 September 2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick

Rule Nr.43 - That which is given for free is freely discounted by the recipient.

As I read your story, I started becoming suspicious when you told how she made such a big deal about getting a free copy. Someone who really appreciated your artwork would have offered some compensation based on what they could afford for the luxury, perhaps far less than you wanted the art to sell for, but an offer made in good faith nevertheless. And because you gave into her, she values your work at the price of the paper and ink it takes to reproduce it.

An artist who does not want to exist at the level of a "starving artist" must treat all of their work as part of an ongoing business. There's nothing offensive or unusual about this, and if someone has a problem with it, it's their problem, not yours.

The copyshop employee did nothing for you that wasn't part of her job description. When she started raising points like this, you should have reminded her of that fact. When she persisted in begging a copy, explain the sad facts of living in the real world, needing money to survive, decision to pursue art as a career and business, and offer to sell her one at fair value. If she balked and/or got offended, smile, collect your work, and walk away. That's all it takes. Her feelings in the matter are her problem -- not yours.

Since you failed to treat your business seriously, your "friend" is now treating it the same way. You need to put an end to this immediately. Inform the clerk that your gift did not come with copyright waivers and insist that she destroy all of the copies she's made of it. If she refuses, contact the manager immediately and tell him/her the whole story. I bet that the clerk not only took your work for free, she's also making expensive copies of it using time, materials and equipment she hasn't paid for. Any manager worth anything will immediately recognize the liability they have and take measures to correct it.

There's nothing flattering or beneficial in the way this person has treated you, beginning with insisting you should gift her with your work and then handing it out to others as if it was hers to do so. She sounds like the kind of person who has a huge collection of mp3 files downloaded off the Net for free, because she believes that any work of art has no tangible value beyond the cost of reproduction. I hope you gave her pilfering a strong response.

Patrick - I've resisted climbing up on my soapbox so far, but you've now saved me the trouble as you've taken the words right out of my mouth. The reason so many artists fail on a professional level is that they don't understand that they have to treat their studio/art as a business. Let me just say that agin just for effect -

they have to treat their studio/art as a business

Martha and I are fortunate in that we have been able to take what for other is a hobby and make careers out of it. As fun as it is, though, there comes a time when you have to take off the warm fuzzy artist hat and put on the cold serious business hat.

It is a great failure on the part of most art schools and institutions that they fail to teach the business end of running an art studio.

Just as a side note (and I don't want to hijack Martha's thread and take it off on another tangent), it p***es me off to no end when I tell someone that I am an artist and they immediately feel the need to make a starving artist joke. It makes me think bad, violent thoughts. For some reason, most people think the words "starving" and "artist" are synonymous. I suppose that, for the reason mentioned above, they are partly right to think so, but in large part, I find that mindset to be the result of pure ignorance. A FedEx clerk did that to me a couple of days ago. Although she meant it lightheartedly, I suddenly had a clear mental picture of me reaching over the counter and ripping her head off. I also found myself fighting the urge to simply inform her that I probably make more than she does. That would have shut her up.

Okay, so I climbed up on my soapbox anyway.

back to the issue at hand.

russ

AAC Cadet Leader · 29 September 2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell Smith

Patrick - I've resisted climbing up on my soapbox so far, but you've now saved me the trouble as you've taken the words right out of my mouth. The reason so many artists fail on a professional level is that they don't understand that they have to treat their studio/art as a business. Let me just say that agin just for effect -

they have to treat their studio/art as a business

Russ and Patrick, I admit that I am lousy at business and an even lousier at selling my paintings. I will try harder. I will try harder. I will try harder.

Quote:

Martha and I are fortunate in that we have been able to take what for other is a hobby and make careers out of it.

Well, I am pleased that you have been able to, Russ. Your success gives me great hope and encouragement for my own. I, however, have a ways to go before I can spend all of my work hours creating paintings, although that is my ultimate career goal. Sad to say, but the paltry daily pay I earn for as a Substitute Teacher in the public high schools is still buying me more gasoline, food and tennis shoes than my paintings sales. I am striving to change that however.

Quote:

It is a great failure on the part of most art schools and institutions that they fail to teach the business end of running an art studio.

True. I did not have one practical course on the real world of art as a business in college.

Quote:

Just as a side note (and I don't want to hijack Martha's thread and take it off on another tangent), it p***es me off to no end when I tell someone that I am an artist and they immediately feel the need to make a starving artist joke. It makes me think bad, violent thoughts. For some reason, most people think the words "starving" and "artist" are synonymous.

Well, I hope my bringing the subject up hasn't angered you further, Russ. If so, I apologize for that, and I am not using the term "starving artist" in any joking sort of way - I am living the term for real - well, I still have enough to eat, so, I'm not starving, but I cannot afford health care, I live in a rental house that is substandard in a number of ways, but if I were to complain to my landlady, she'd raise my rent, so I don't. I drive two 12 year old cars that each are the back up for when the other one fails to run, my kids and I seldom buy new clothes, yada, yada... but you are one of the very, very few artists I know who has found a way to support yourself with your fine artwork. Besides myself, I know many fine artists who all have other day jobs in order to pay the rent and put paint on the palette.

Quote:

I suppose that, for the reason mentioned above, they are partly right to think so, but in large part, I find that mindset to be the result of pure ignorance. A FedEx clerk did that to me a couple of days ago. Although she meant it lightheartedly, I suddenly had a clear mental picture of me reaching over the counter and ripping her head off. I also found myself fighting the urge to simply inform her that I probably make more than she does. That would have shut her up.

Here's a funny reverse coincidence, Russ - I felt like telling Maribel, my FedEx clerk, that she probably makes more than I do, so she should pay me for my print that she talked me out of. But I wimped out.

karrart · 29 September 2007, 11:42 AM

It's been a long time since I've had anything repro'ed in a commercial shop, but part of the routine was for me, the customer to prove I had copyright.
The way I view theft is murder by the minute. If somebody rips you off, they've taken X amount of minutes from your life, whatever was involved in obtaining whatever was yours and they stole.......
I suppose you could do up a real fancy-looking bill of sale with a nice price on it and present it to the girl and tell her that's what she owes you.
"you print it- you bought it".
Or you could box her up and ship her at the FedEx International economy rate to some wierd place. On the customs form write "life-like crunched human dummy" with a declared value of $2.
Robert Karr
OLD BIRDS STAYING ALIVE - THE AVIATION ART OF ROBERT KARR

Russell Smith · 29 September 2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAC Cadet Leader

Russ and Patrick, I admit that I am lousy at business and an even lousier at selling my paintings. I will try harder. I will try harder. I will try harder.

Good girl!

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAC Cadet Leader

Well, I am pleased that you have been able to, Russ. Your success gives me great hope and encouragement for my own. I, however, have a ways to go before I can spend all of my work hours creating paintings, although that is my ultimate career goal. Sad to say, but the paltry daily pay I earn for as a Substitute Teacher in the public high schools is still buying me more gasoline, food and tennis shoes than my paintings sales. I am striving to change that however.

Hang in there, AAC. It'll happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAC Cadet Leader

True. I did not have one practical course on the real world of art as a business in college.

Nor did I, and looking back, I'm a bit annoyed about that. Fortunately, I was blessed with parents with good insight. They have always been supportive of my artistic inclinations - both when I chose art as my college major AND when I chose it as my full-time career. However, they did have the foresight to suggest that I choose a business minor in college.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAC Cadet Leader

Well, I hope my bringing the subject up hasn't angered you further, Russ. If so, I apologize for that, and I am not using the term "starving artist" in any joking sort of way - I am living the term for real - well, I still have enough to eat, so, I'm not starving, but I cannot afford health care, I live in a rental house that is substandard in a number of ways, but if I were to complain to my landlady, she'd raise my rent, so I don't. I drive two 12 year old cars that each are the back up for when the other one fails to run, my kids and I seldom buy new clothes, yada, yada... but you are one of the very, very few artists I know who has found a way to support yourself with your fine artwork. Besides myself, I know many fine artists who all have other day jobs in order to pay the rent and put paint on the palette.

No offense taken, AAC. Didn't mean it to sound like that. Oddly enough, it doesn't bother me when another artist uses the term. I've been where you are, so I guess I feel that I've earned the right NOT to get those type of comments from the non-artist folks. But that probably just me. I'm probably just taking myself too seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAC Cadet Leader

Here's a funny reverse coincidence, Russ - I felt like telling Maribel, my FedEx clerk, that she probably makes more than I do, so she should pay me for my print that she talked me out of. But I wimped out.

You should have. You could have served her up a nice guilt soufle'.

Russ

Russell Smith · 29 September 2007, 12:38 PM

AAC - not to steer your thread too far off course, but while we're on the subject, let me reccommend three books to you (if you don't have them already):

Taking the Leap - by Cay Lang
Art Marketing 101 - by Constance Smith
The Fine Artists Career Guide - by Daniel Grant

All three are good books that focus on the "business" of art, but if you can only choose one, go with the first.

Russ

AAC Cadet Leader · 29 September 2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell Smith

AAC - not to steer your thread too far off course, but while we're on the subject, let me reccommend three books to you (if you don't have them already):

Taking the Leap - by Cay Lang
Art Marketing 101 - by Constance Smith
The Fine Artists Career Guide - by Daniel Grant

All three are good books that focus on the "business" of art, but if you can only choose one, go with the first.

Russ

which one has the most pictures?

Sreiko · 29 September 2007, 12:46 PM

Martha- get up, stand up. Your work is very fine and inspirational. The market is strange thing... no matter are learn anything or not, simply you have to get sense for the market, trends, philology's. I am not the one who can give you advice as well my principal goal is not to sale the art. In last year I have published several articles and there is my art used and this is my basic interest.

Sometimes I make print but this is very rare even the art made digitally I don't make prints. Some time ago I have made few samples and one of them I have give to friend in USA with my signature. For free of course

By the way- one of the good method is to split your self on the various art portals, blogs, forums and make your name fore frequently seen. Also advice given by Russel is nice.

I am not in position that I can help you but if you think I can just let me know