Production over Originality - Tools of a hack

[Tim West]

Where'd the cyber henchmen go?

[AAC Cadet Leader]

thread's worth a revisit...

is CFA still in business?

[Tim West]

Funny you mention this......

Fellow forumites.....you will not in a million years guess what happened the other day..... I was reading a book by Ian Castle called "The Zeppelin Menace" . It has these wonderful illustrations by Osprey artist Christa Hook in it. And wouldnt you know it!



I was in no way looking for this. But I knew I had seen the gunners before. So I pulled up the IB piece and noticed that the gunners indeed look very similar. Hmm, it is both of Christa's gunners merged into one of IB's. Even the angle of the gun barrel is the same. I know it's not as exact as some other of his other "master" works but then I got to another chapter in the "The Zeppelin Menace" and noticed...HEY! IB's Be2c looks a hell of a lot like the one Christa Hook illustrated.

Lol..... The props are even in the same spots in their rotations. oh...that's right...they stood in the exact same spot to take their reference photos.....riiiiiigggght...

So that's 2 different paintings in a book used to comp 1 of IB's "master" works.

I know....I'm prolly just seeing stuff again but check it out. I dont have a ton of books. But every time I start to research a new plane or do get a new book.. This losers, "master" works have the uncanny way of looking like the art of OTHERS inside.

How is that??????????????????????????????????????? How does this always happen to IB and not to other artist like, Taylor, Smith, Dietz and so on????

Anywho.... chumps will be chumps.
I forwarded the above image to the artist...she wasnt happy.

[JohnReid]

Well I guess I picked the right medium after all ! Copy my stuff ? well go right ahead

[JFM]

I'm not an artist and this is slightly OT but what sticks out to me in the Cranston piece is the left gunner is shooting behind the BE2. Just look at the angle. Standing where the gunner is and facing his direction, the BE2 would be to his right. The right gunner is leading the BE2 but perhaps by too much, but at least he is leading.

Are they shooting at other planes that have been cropped out of that posted image?

[Romani]

Hello, I am reading this thread with interest, but being unfamiliar with the proceedings, I do not get it.

For those of us slow on the upstake, can you give a summary? I think Tim West is saying Ivan Berryman is plagiarizing the works of others using photoshop and has a workshop of copyst painters wich churn out paintings while Berryman signs them?

Thanks in advance.

BTW I think that the Ivan Berryman painting predates the Osprey book, I know that image and I had it in my hard drive before the book came out. Since in my opinion shared for others, Christa Hook is a mediocre artist that got employed in Osprey due to his father being one of the premier Osprey artists, I believe it is the other way around, Christa Hook copied Berryman

[bristol scout]

Hi Tim mate,

I well recall the two SE5a's you posted some time ago-----one by the very accomplished, (i.e. not "mediocre") Brian Knight----and a particularly EXACT LOOK A-LIKE, by Berryman.

Now they are both so nearly exactly the same, these two SE's------EVEN TO THE SMALL DIAMETER WHEELS--- that ONE is without doubt in my mind 'lifted' directly off the other.

Can't remember the thread Tim, but the Brian Knight 'version' is on the rear cover FOKKER DVII anthology (2) by Windsock.

My money is on Brian Knights artwork coming first--and his slight error of wheel diameter being 'copied' along with everything else by Berryman-----who, in truth, after looking at his aircraft carefully, (his F.1 triplane, with at least one other F.1 AND a DR1 revving up around it......... looks like it was modelled from the Revell 1/28th. kit) misses the 'feel' of his subjects, the sit, the line, the balance----the details. Now HE is certainly well within the realms of "mediocre".

Those threads some time ago---not JUST the one I am thinking of---certainly presented a formidable point---Ah! it was triggered by a 'cack' drawing on a supposed original MvR sig.---just come to me.

Cheers,
Dave.

[bristol scout]

"Christa Hook is a mediocre artist that got employed in Osprey due to his father being one of the premier Osprey artists,..........."


Oh dear!

HER father, I think----Christa is female !!! "slow on the uptake"----agreed!

"mediocre"---Hmmmmmmm!

"Christa Hook has built an unrivalled reputation for combining the attention to detail of a military illustrator with the sense of drama and atmosphere of a fine artist.
Her work is sought after by collectors worldwide and her paintings have featured at prestigious London shows including the Laing Land & Seascape Exhibition at The Mall Galleries, and the Not the Royal Academy Exhibition at The Llewellyn Alexander Gallery.

Born in 1968 in Surrey, England, Christa studied under her father, Richard Hook, the well known historical book illustrator. She has since illustrated many books, including over 30 titles in the Osprey Men-at-Arms, Warrior and Campaign series.

While her illustration work has featured a broad brush of subjects, her fine art has focused primarily on the Napoleonic period.

Her paintings have attracted prestigious commissions for military organizations, fiction publishers, television companies and private collectors,the most recent being the re-opening of the Marengo Museum, Italy, showing in a permanent collection, ten of her paintings."


Seems very prolific, well researched and NOT AT ALL MEDIOCRE.

[Al Forbes]

I had a look at IB's work some time ago and was amazed and offended to find a picture of Albert Ball in a Nieuport shooting down an LVG CVI!
You'd hope these folk would get their time-lines right at least or is it "just First World War"?
Pathetic.

Also, I think if an image is to be described as a painting it should be painted.
Masking tape? Bollocks!

Al

[Tim West]

Originally Posted by Romani

BTW I think that the Ivan Berryman painting predates the Osprey book, I know that image and I had it in my hard drive before the book came out. Since in my opinion shared for others, Christa Hook is a mediocre artist that got employed in Osprey due to his father being one of the premier Osprey artists, I believe it is the other way around, Christa Hook copied Berryman

Wow! You sir are on dope Everyone will view art differently..which is the intent. But really?

Both the book and IBs piece are dated 08. I would imagine that Christa painted her works before the book was published.
They hung in a gallery in England. She'd be a really awesome artist if SHE could paint them after the fact huh?

Speaking of mediocre artist...I find HER work rather inspiring. Way more lively than the tracings of IB. His works are cold,
lifeless and often inaccurate to the events portrayed.

But as I've said before. If you like this type of art....THEN BUY it

What do you say about the numbers of other artists , who's works his resemble.
Are they also...mediocre? Some of them visit here even Did they "all" copy this master of a painter?

Besides copying others peoples comps, IB's works sometimes are just exact copies of photos.
Like his Jacobs piece. But again...some people like it.....so buy it.

But what remains is that no one in the last 4 years....including the artist himself mind you,
has given a reasonable explanation to why so many of his paintings look like the works of others.
Let alone the process involved.

About your question....thats for you to decide.
I merely offered my OPINION on what I can see in his body of work.

If you've have used PhotoShop in the last few years....you'd know that you can edit anything...even down to perspective,
without loss in detail. And in CS5 you can edit images in ways that, if you're smart, no one could ever tell you've copied someones work.
All Im saying is , if I was going to do this...that's how'd I do it.

And I suspect it will get harder to find "similarities" as PhotoShop becomes even more powerful.

But what got people to asking about art farms is the awesome rate in which this guy can paint. And all matter of subjects.
No artist here can paint at this rate. At least not with methods they've displayed in their wips.

Maybe it's possible.. Again, that's for others to decide on their own. But his WWI works alone have tripled since IB was first mentioned here.

Again...Ivan is a master. I hope I might one day copy stuff as well myself